ATA Sydney Central branch – Paul Wilson — Phase Change Materials

as David mentioned from phase-change Energy Solutions Australia we’re kind of a subsidiary of the US company a change energy solutions and we represent them here in Australia to get this really interesting product into the country and to get people to really understand how you can make much better design a building obviously we know that we’ve got an energy problem we we keep burning up our resources and it costs a lot of money and we don’t want to keep doing it so some clever scientists probably about 30 years ago that I that I’ve heard about we’re using phase change materials to try and stabilize temperatures a phase change material is simply a material which takes advantage of a fundamental principle and that is that it melts if you take a block of ice and you put it into a glass of coke what happens to the coke it gets cold but what happens to the ice it doesn’t get hot does it okay that’s the fundamental principle that we use in phase change material the ice doesn’t get hot it just transitions and it’s a transition that all of the energy is used so what phase change materials are is materials that absorb and release heat at predetermined temperature ranges if we take ice and we put it in our home and we take it out of the fridge and we put it in the room it does keep us cool in some of it it’s too cold and it melts quickly and it’s no good to us in in winter if we melted something that was very hot say steel at a thousand degrees then it would actually also phase change from a solid into a liquid and dissolve a huge amount of heat while it turns from a solid to a liquid that’s another phase change you can think of another phase change that happens almost every day in our work environment anybody air-conditioning the liquid that goes through the coils in the air conditioner evaporates into a gas which is a phase change and then we take it outside and we squash it back into a liquid again and release the heat outside okay it’s a phase change if you take a pot of a pot of water and you boil it on the stove it hits 100 degrees it doesn’t get hotter does it so it’s absorbing heat without getting hot it’s another phase change from a liquid to a gas so phase change is not a new idea the new idea is that it can be put into a package that you can put into your building and it stays stable for a very long time that’s the that’s the challenge that’s been out there for a very long time is to actually make phase change material into a building material so the injured engineers in the u.s thought how will we do this they looked at using salts because if you put salt in water it changes its freeze point they looked at using animal fat but they thought that would be socially unacceptable if you put if you look at the fish and chip shop and you go do you see the solid solid mouse on top of the fryer and they heat it up and it melts the kate’s phase changing you take soap and you and you and you heat it up it’ll melt in your hands it’s phase changing you take chocolate and you put it in your mouth what happens it’s phase changing okay so lots of things phase change they looked at salts and they looked at petroleum products such as paraffin wax to take a candle and you heat it up what happens it melts into a liquid that’s another phase change some manufacturers in Germany such as BASF I think Anja Pont developed phase change plasterboard so they took plaster board and impregnated it with small balls of paraffin wax candle wax and they would put these plasterboard sheets on the wall and have an incredible building performance improvement the dilemma with it is that if you cut paraffin wax it smells like a candle see end up with the house that smells a bit like a candle which is not always so pleasant so they’ve actually I believe they’re taking it off the market I’m not quite sure the principle is good but the delivery mechanism is there is the issue so looking at phase change material here we’ve got a plastic mat which you’ve all got a sample of does anybody not have a sample of the phase change yep done for you and I’m gonna pass in back to the back thank you it’s a plastic mat and it’s containing phase change material if you have a look at it on a thermal-imaging camera we have a look at this is the thermal imaging camera does anybody see more of these before you might have seen the movie predator okay he had one of these he wasn’t really seeing that he just had a camera face a thermal-imaging camera basically has a whole array of little tiny sensors called micro barometers and they detect temperature there’s a crystal lens there that focuses the heat on it and then it turns that into a picture so I’ve calibrated it to see cold to hot between about 20 and 35 degrees which is why people are looking white because they’re above 35 you take that sheet there sir in front of them camera for me you see the temperature of the map is much cooler than the room now that Matt was in Melbourne this morning on a concrete floor where it actually refroze itself so it refroze itself using the night air and that’s the most clever thing about phase change material is you’ve got free

energy okay because the energy that’s stored in here is just the energy that we let go of it like we let go of last night when it cooled off so we kind of like Robin Hood we’re still from the rich and give to the poor so we steal the heat there’s still the cold out of the night and give it back in the day or in the cooler months we steal the heat out of the day and give it back in the night it’s quite logical when you think about it does anybody here I have a house with high thermal mass yeah and how have you achieved that masonry yeah anything anybody else concrete slab okay concrete’s a very good thermal mass that the dilemma with normal traditional thermal masses is that they have thermal mass properties all the way from negative 10 to the point at which they melt and that’s called sensible heat absorption when heat is put into a concrete slab it gets hotter then what happens on a really hot day with a concrete slab gets if it gets too hot eventually here and then in the middle of winter what happens to it it gets too cold eventually so you have to have to deliver a huge amount of heat into concrete to get it up to a point at which it’s comfortable to enjoy and then once it gets past that comfortable point you’ve got to wait for it a long time for it to get back again so sensible thermal masses is good but it’s got some downsides when it’s outside the comfort range it’s not our friend it’s a slab yeah but if you had a suspended slab in the windows room it doesn’t get that hot yeah yeah but it does get cold in winter then yeah okay so the negative side of thermal mass is that it actually doesn’t help us in the wrong time of the year the difference with that in phase change material any kind of phase change material is it doesn’t exhibit any thermal mass property below it’s melt point so below eighteen degrees this is just like a lightweight piece of plastic with some vegetable fat inside it which is what the material is made of so that there is just like putting a piece of concrete this thick inside your house the difference is that once it starts to melt it’s a huge thermal mess it’s about 40 times more than concrete per gram okay so that’s how much more energy it stores in concrete concrete’s about one Joule per gram of material this material here is about 40 joules per gram across the melt range per degree so every degree it goes up it absorbs 40 joules concrete every degree it goes up it absorbs one joule per gram water is about two joules per gram when it’s water when it’s ice it’s about four hundred joules per gram across a very tight band water is one of the best phase change materials we’ll ever find the problem is that freezes that it freezes at zero and we’re not Eskimos the game we’d I want to live in that in that comfort band so this is effectively room-temperature ice so go back up to here so you have a look here we’ve got different phase change material so we can actually by mixing different types of vegetable fat into the little pouches we can get different milk bands you can imagine that chocolate melts at a different temperature – coconut butter for example and we can get different masses so the more kilograms of material you have the more thermal inertia you get it’s kind of like a truck on the highway if it’s laden with weight it’ll carry a long way once you turn the engine off the more mass you put into the house the more thermal inertia again for example in my house I’ve got 25 degree phase change material upstairs and during a hot day the room slowly climbs from 19 degrees to eventually hit about 25 26 degrees by the end of the day now upstairs it used to get to 35 36 degrees now it doesn’t get past about 26 27 in the middle of summer overnight I just open the windows up and the night air comes in provided the 90s below about 22 and the night air will refreeze the material back again ready for the morning and while it’s refreezing it I’m enjoying the room at 22 degrees because it’s releasing the heat so it doesn’t have a negative effect on the comfort of the home just the ceiling year I would love to have it in the walls – but I don’t – pull my plaster board off yeah so if you want to go just ceiling you can go a bit thicker the thicker you go the more thermal mass you have you can’t really put too much in this is a church they’ve got to invert it into a house they put a lightweight extension on top lightweight extensions are great because they’re inexpensive to build and you don’t have to worry about support for steel of steel to hold concrete slabs up to get thermal mass which makes your house comfortable the problem is that you’ve got no thermal master therefore you’re building swings in temperatures if you have a building on a hot day with no thermal mass and you open up the doors and the heat comes in then you close the doors it doesn’t matter how much installation you have it’s hot inside and you can’t get it out unless you pump it out with an air conditioner the difference is with phase change material you open the doors on a hot day and you close the doors again the material will suck all the heat out of the room and bring it back to 22 degrees again depending on where it is in its melt cycle so it’s like an air conditioner but it’s you can’t hear it like the one you can hear up the back there okay in the same way in winter time if you have a warm house let’s say you’ve got a fireplace going and you’re and you’ve warmed up the ceiling with the with the fireplace and then you open up the doors and all the cold air rushes in and then you close the doors again the house heats up again because the

ceiling is melted and it has to reset to a solid to release its heat this is the principle of phase change material it’s basically just stealing the heat and giving it back when you need it or stealing the cold and giving it back when you need it then it’s a pain you don’t want it you don’t want it exactly so the problem the good thing about phase changes is if you got a badly designed house you still get a great benefit in Melbourne we have about 200 days per year where we don’t have to heat and cool a house I imagine it’s probably fairly similar in Sydney with phase change material at my house that’s jumped up to about 300 days per year where I don’t to heat and cool actively I can just steal the cold of the night and I can just steal the heat of the day and just give it back when I need it and all I do is I manage curtains and windows it’s very simple hot day close the curtains close the windows nighttime open the curtains open the windows let the heat out it’s like a very very slow air-conditioner I’m charging the day and releasing it at the night when I look at the middle of winter I want to keep it all closed so I’ll keep the curtains open so the Sun can come in and a bit of heat will charge the ceiling but if I don’t get enough from the Sun in the middle of winter I like my fireplace or I could run my air conditioner in reverse cycle mode in the middle of the day yeah that’s a good point okay and that’s a good point you can get onto the Bureau of Meteorology website and David can help you with that if you don’t know how to do it yeah and within it you can actually put your region in and you can tell it what how many nights per year does a temperature not fall below 20 degrees and you can count them okay and you can say about this 16 days here in Sydney where the temperature at night doesn’t fall below those nights the phase change material won’t reset itself okay then you can put more mass in so that you can get through two days okay and if you might have two nights in a row where it’s doesn’t get below 20 degrees simultaneously you could have more mass and get through three days it’s quite possible to go through the entire year without actually having any heating and cooling if you have enough phase change material that’s right yes exactly you can pre freeze the house in Queensland what we’re doing we’re talking with the Queensland Government and their dilemma is that people get home from work at 3 o’clock because they’re coming clean just so they get to do that and they all put their air cons on at once because it’s thinking hot and they won’t have a hard day fair enough the problem is the grid can’t handle that so they have to put a big grid in with a big power station to feed the power for that 4 hour window from 3 p.m to 7 p.m. that’s expensive which adds cost to the people the taxpayers and there’s cost to the new land being released so what we’re doing in Queensland is we’re using solar panels on the roof to run the air conditioner while they’re at work which is free electricity pump the heat out of the phase change material in the middle of the day get it down to 20 degrees they get home turn off the air conditioner and the house is pre frozen at 20 degrees ready for them to enjoy their night so free cooling in Queensland ok much better than paying for 38 cents shoulder tariffs and things I’ve got now okay the question is where’s the best place to install phase change material closest to the people so in between the plasterboard or the timber lining and the insulation itself because you’re trying to control and stabilize the internal temperature you’re not trying to control the external temperature you can in extreme climates like Port Hedland marble bar you can put phase change externally as well and that will resist the heat getting to the insulation in the first place and the night desert air will refreeze it so we’ll give it a better thermal property but for the most part you don’t need to do it see here’s a church that was done in Asheboro North Carolina where the temperature fell dramatically after putting phase change material in with instrument new insulation now huge energy savings this is a very interesting graph this really sums up what phase change material does if you have a look here the ambient temperature falls here down towards say what’s this 10 or 11 degrees over here overnight pretty typical cool night and maybe spring or autumn and then it climbs through the day eventually it hits up here around 31 32 degrees with an insulated home the insulated home lags behind the outdoor temperature because insulation just slows the transfer of heat down so the heat transfers through the house eventually gets cold you’ve got to put a heater on cruise through here and then you get to here again it gets too hot you got to put an aircon on through there or you just put up with it it’s just probably what some people do with phase change material here we’re releasing heat which is keeping you warm so we’re not getting below here 21 21 degrees or so and then here we’re absorbing heat keeping you cool so simply by using the natural process of

melting and resetting we can actually stabilize the building temperature and the way that you do it is to simply use your windows and your curtains it’s that simple and if you if that’s not good enough you can use your air conditioning on reverse cycle mode to pump it in or pump heat out a very small air conditioner can do an enormous amount of work we have in my house that the living area is about 50 squares it’s quite big we’ve got five kids we use a lot we use a lot of electricity my electricity bills about a dollar a quarter okay and that’s thanks to solar power which helps produce my electricity there’s also help thanks for the fact I hardly use any heating and cooling but I do have an air conditioner there because I do like it cool on the sting nights so on those hot nights I put my two kilowatt air conditioner on and I pre freeze my ceiling overnight on off-peak rate to get it ready for the next hot day if the night is actually above 20 degrees this summer I think I used the ignition of four times to do that so a single two kilowatt air conditioner used at four times across summer yeah much more about dollar-for-dollar so every every thousand dollars you take out of your aircon put it back into phase change material and you end up with the same performance of the building easily but there’s no running cost on this this this has a design life of 85 years whereas an air-conditioner has a design life with probably ten years before you’ve got to replace it and maintain it and you got to pay the electricity bill as well so you can greatly enhance the building’s performance go ahead yes-no plasterboard doesn’t have much insulated value it’s about our point five depending on the thickness whereas the insulation on the other side of it is r3 so you have a huge amount of resistance to heat flow this side phase change material then a little bit of plaster board in fact if you look at the plaster board if you take the thermal camera here take this here let’s that’s a good place to put it tin ceiling here if you put that on top of the tin ceiling up there I don’t know if we can do that maybe just hold it up here there’s no there’s no thermal masking in Tim just pass the straight through so if you look up at the ceiling here yeah so you can see sorry I can see it quite well you can’t okay so what you see when you look at the plasterboard ceiling is you actually just see these blue dots all over it because the plasterboard is in connection with the phase change material and it’s just drawing the heat through the plasterboard and by the end of the day the material might have reached 24 degrees 25 depending on how well designed the building is now hot it is outside it’s not a miracle product it can only do so much okay and the more kilograms you have the more energy you can resist and the more you can store so a well-designed building is less phase-change material a badly designed building needs a lot more okay good question so calculation if you look on the back of your brochure you’ll see that there is a measurement at the bottom of the table of each of the different columns which is kilowatt hours per square meter can everyone see that so kilowatt hours per square meter is how much energy you have to put into the material to get it to transition from frozen solid to be totally melted so if you look at let’s say the middle product in the middle column because it’s easy to find actually we use the one that you’ve got on your hand on your lips there excuse me this one here is Q 23 M 27 so it’s the left-hand group that’s orange is that right yep and the left-hand column is the M 27 which is the lightest one it’s only one and one and a half kilos per square meter so it’s very lightweight can you put it anywhere if you look at that material at the very bottom that shows you its point oh eight five watt hours per square meter so if you have let’s say 100 square meters of this product 100 times 0.085 is eight point five kilowatt hours worth of thermal inertia so ten by ten meter square so from this wall to here and out to there again in that area there if I put an electric heater on in this room a 2000 watt heater it would take about five hours for this room to get above 25 degrees because it would keep absorbing the heat that you’re delivering to the room okay if I didn’t put the heater on maybe I put on a thousand in the last ten hours just the heaters are stimulating well maybe you’ve got windows with a lot of Sun hitting them same thing same thing with the cooling side its if it’s full of energy and you open the win at night if you’re up in windows on a house you get about thirty year changes per hour typically so you open the windows up the air comes in the air might be a 10 degrees outside that will refreeze the material back to 1819 by the time it gets to morning because there’s no fair changes to do that typically and by then your ceiling is frozen again like you’ve got the sample in your hands and then you close the

curtains and you close the windows and the day the house stays really cool because it’s absorbing all the heat keeping your cool so how to calculate it you can just use the kilowatt hours and if you have megajoules like you might have done an export from first straight or accurate or burs you can export real data from a house that’s been designed and modeled inside design modeling software does anybody here use design modeling software thermal modeling software for you guys yep don’t know what we’re talking about ask them afterwards but you can build your house inside this software and it tells you how many mega joules of heat you’re having to deal with per room on the worst day of the year and the best day of the year etc from that you can calculate how many kilograms of phase change material will undo that heat or undo that coal it’s an example of a test facility just passively control – no controls at all just letting it do its own thing for a whole year so not opening windows nope not closing curtains nothing at all just letting the house or the building change its control those temperatures by itself see here that the the green building uses much less energy – to stabilize this is um an air conditioner runtime test you can see here the normal air conditioner hits two o’clock in the afternoon it’s just flat out trying to pump all the heat out of the room so you gotta have a big air conditioner to overcome that the phase change building is pre frozen so it’s half the work has been done when it’s much more efficient you know an air conditioner works much better when it’s cold because it doesn’t have to reject the heat outside into the heat and rejects it into the cool so if you put your aircon on at 7:00 in the morning it’s a much more efficient of pumping the heat out of your house than it would be say at 2:00 in the afternoon because the temperature difference so your pre freeze use much less electricity I could buy a smaller air conditioner save yourself some money there and then the aircon doesn’t have to work so hard there’s a restaurant in Taiwan and they had a real problem like the in the middle of the day they had a thousand people come into their little wok frying restaurant and a lot of walks going off and a lot of heat coming in the doors are open 100 time’s the restaurant we’ll just get to about 30 degrees within about half an hour no matter how big an aircon they put in the others couldn’t get it cold enough and they couldn’t get a bigger aircon in because they couldn’t get enough power into the shop because they would have had to increase the size of their mains so simply by suspending two steel cables through the middle of the restaurant and hanging a little curtain blanket and laying the phase-change mats out you can imagine what would happen it’s just like hanging a concrete slab through the building so the more of this they put in the more thermal inertia they got so they could pre freeze it before everyone got into the restaurant and then when everyone arrived the heat would gush up to the touch of the roof pass pass the curtain on the way to the aircon returned and be pretty cold so the aircon worked a lot better and obviously save them a lot of money too so a really good way to amuse phase change material is to help an air-conditioner an old one work much better or a bad one work a lot better just just one second go ahead this is showing that this is showing how much how many times de conditioner is coming on during the day because of the phase change material helping it no not at all the phase change happens throughout the day so what’s happening here is the aircon is coming on it’s realizing it’s not that hard to get it down to the temperature because of the phase changes doing a lot of the work for it the normal cycling of any aircon so it comes on it calls that you race that I’ve got two 22 I’ll turn off again because the phase change is helping it helping the return air be cooler eventually it’s like adventure it’s liquid but but then it’s nighttime and the natural night air can refreeze it or you can put the building on night purge mode just ventilate like this telstra building here overnight if they had the phase change through all the ceiling plate space they just put the building on ventilate overnight push on the night air in below 20 degrees and pre freeze the building to 20 then during the day the aircon only has to pump a little bit of heat out because the phase change is going to absorb all the heat first go ahead yep you need to model it you need to consider it’s not magic it’s just more thermal mass in the comfort band so if you’ve got a very badly designed house you need to do other things as well so this is a another test facility proving that phase change material saves energy you can see here is a lot less power used because the phase change materials simply melting if you want to get into the modeling calculations this is in Fahrenheit so pardon me for that but if you look at the comparison of a wall if you measure the time it takes for heat to pass through a wall you can you can calculate its r-value the test facilities at Fletcher’s installation in Sydney here we run a test on phase change material normally you put an insulation mat inside the machine it stabilizes the temperature the top I think at about 30 degrees and it has a sensor at the bottom at 20 degrees it stabilizes the insulation then it does a test and it cycles that measures the

r-value comes out with r2 or r3 we it takes 20 minutes normally to stabilize and then it takes about half an hour or an hour to do the test we took phase change material and put it in there to see what happens we wanted to get an R rating on it well it took seven hours to stabilize and then the machine just came back with error because the heat kept going in that wasn’t coming out so the Machine figured there was something wrong so if you look at a wall if you look at the comparison of insulation now this is an insulation so it can’t confuse it with replacing insulation but if you look at a typical day if the phase change material doesn’t completely melt the R value of the wall this is this is us R go so divided by six the R 2.3 wall is actually R 25 it’s a pretty big difference because the thermal amount and thermal energy is not passing through and changing the temporal on the inside provided doesn’t melt if it melts then it just goes back to r2 but by then it’s nighttime okay it’s different ways you can apply it this is a reroofing mechanism where you basically take an old tin roof lay the battens down lay the sheets inside put some bats on top and then put another layer of tin down there’s lots of ways it can be used you can see here the heat flux of the roof before and after heat flux is just passing a pee through in a restaurant we explained that before just on top of the ceiling tiles the simple installation is just rolling the mats out and then that the building has much more thermal inertia you can pre freeze it or preheat it now here’s a control situation where that had to take away restaurants in the same town experiencing the same weather built the same way facing the same direction with the same number of people per day this is a great way to test phase change material you can see here the bio PCM store here used far less energy because it was able to use the phase change material to help the air conditioner work better the upside is not just about money either imagine a house that was always 21 22 degrees when outside it was 30 degrees or outside of 10 degrees you come in and this feels really comfortable you don’t have air conditioner blowing air on you you don’t have dry air so and you can preheat or pre cool it before you get home to experience that you see here this is a this was actually the chest was a chest restaurant that was done with the curtain see the improvement here before and after the green is before and the blue is after here’s another area with a kitchen the kitchen temperature was suffering dramatically because the aircon couldn’t keep up but the phase change kept it stable the product is used in in the in the US and a whole lot of different manufacturing materials it hasn’t been made into any materials in Australia the typical return on investment for someone who installed phase change which was between six months and five years we had one situation where the payoff was about three days so it’s all depends on what your cost of energy is and what the problem you’re trying to deal with is this application was a military tension in the desert and in order to cool the tent to keep the generals cold they had to have a generator running to run the air conditioner and it was in a war zone so diesel was $1,000 a gallon and the night was 0 degrees in the day was 40 degrees so straight away you got a perfect situation for phase change to refreeze itself passively and remelt itself during the day so you get fast payoff sometimes sometimes it’s slower no matter how you look at it you don’t have to buy anywhere as much energy per year if you have phase change of material into big houses you can do small houses these these guys here got these little granny flats I guess you’d call them over here with this with a solar power system and and phase change material they’ve got the energy Buddha under $15 per year it’s being used in colleges over in the US universities here’s a here’s a way that it can be used intelligently like being built into a building design so here we’re using we’re using the 92 proof pre freezer and exhaust the air rather than actually letting the air in and out again so there’s lots of different ways you can actually charge and discharge the phase change material Harvard Graduate schools got some in some of their buildings for testing so it can be used in different types of fabricate buildings we just won the tender in the US for the Olympic archery stadium now why would you want to use it in an archery stadium you don’t have to have an air conditioner running which blows the arrows off course so the phase change material was the st. was cheaper than the air conditioning system with no running cost because the night air was cool enough to refreeze the material and give them a stable temperature during the day it’s integrated into a steel panel here so the steel panel which has no almost no thermal mass all of a sudden has a huge thermal mass this is a board product where we’ve got a timber layer insulation and phase change and then foam and then foil and insulation that that Barry they’re almost you will almost can’t get heat through it no matter how hard you try you can you can do it in wall panels you could even lay it inside concrete into a sandwich paneling to improve the thermal mass of

the concrete wall energy modeling for those guys who use accurate burrs and first rate there’s another program called design-build which you might have heard of which has actually got phase change mature listed inside it now so you can actually look up each material each map and work out how many kilowatt hours it will change the building by so you can actually model the house without phase change material or the office and you can tick yes insert the phase change material and see the difference based on the climate zone and all the other attributes of the building to see how much energy you won’t have to use so I won’t i won’t go too much into the technical detail but in essence phase change material is a way that you can have a much more comfortable building he is much more much less energy quite woman here right now Victor we can probably work out how warm it is by looking over the wall it’s 26.1 degrees in here to go ahead the temperature range and melt it varies if you have a look on the back of the brochure the question was does the temperature range vary if you have a look on the back here this this three different temperature ranges says the orange brown in the blue the orange one here has an 18 to 23 degree range you see it on about the second or third last row on the cult spread sheet and the next one is 20 to 25 degree and then we have a 20 to 27 degree this one here I’ve got a brought it up especially that’s a 16 degree phase change so that one there starts changing at about 8 degrees and finishes at 16 degrees yeah if you feel that feel that there you pass it around that that sheet there was on my warehouse floor this morning in Melbourne so I brought the weather with me if you have a look at the temperature of it you can probably see it over there as it goes past around probably track it actually you can see there you know you’re just not safe a with phase change okay so this is it okay yep this has the latent heat of water about half of water yeah so what water is the best yeah water is best at zero phase change is best 220 yeah yeah is what is about two joules per gram throughout zero to a hundred degrees in fact to get water from ice to a liquid is the same amount of energy to get it from zero to 80 to give you an idea of the change so four point oh sorry everything’s a phase change material eventually it’ll melt a venture little phrase that the phase changed if you look at it I’m gonna be a whiteboard here but if you take I’ll pretend a little whiteboard okay it’s my whiteboard finger if you take normal water and you heat it it gets hot everyone agree with that sensible heat absorption you put heating it gets hot it’s sensible it makes sense okay latent heat absorption you take ice and you heat it and what happens to it doesn’t get hot eventually it melts to a liquid then it goes up again then he hits a hundred and what happens flatlines again okay that’s latent heat is when you’re putting heat in and it’s not actually getting hot because it’s using all the energy to change the structure of the material so your question is isn’t water a phase change material while it’s liquid no it’s not because it’s not changing its structure you put heating it gets hot it’s when it changes from the liquid to a gas or from a solid to a liquid that’s the phase change point come maybe we’ll take it afterwards it releases hate but it gets called a while it releases it that’s the difference that’s the fundamental difference a good question if you get concrete and you put it outside on a hot on a cold night it will release heat but it gets cold this releases heat without getting cold that’s the difference no it’s not a face-to-face change when it changes state and releases heat or absorbs heat

is one being installed next week next week in Paddington it’s very new this is new technology you guys are like at the point when they release microwave ovens ok everyone’s been big one’s been cooking in a stove all their life and they’re going what’s this microwave oven it’s the same thing it’s just it’s now available you can buy it everyone’s wanted phase changed for a long time and they can buy it off the shelf and that’s why there aren’t many test cases in Australia hasn’t made it long enough the cost that the it’s all on the website they’re costing ends a calculator on there that starts it starts at $43 per square metre that’s the retail price to to an end user customer if a builder has to buy it he buys it gets a bit of a discount so you never pay more than that go ahead materials where do you live what’s the weather like here okay so what about what about if you lived in Townsville you might not get a night refreeze you see so if you have a material that roof freezes at a different point you can refreeze it passively so it depends if you’re having an active design or a passive design and it depends on what you what temperature you want the vent room to be there’s a suite there’s a bit of a sweet spot it’s a trade-off yet there’s at least it’s only 25 in the middle of the day when it everyone else’s house is 35 yes well it depends what you like if you use the 23 degree product it needs to get down to 18 degrees to reset which means less days per year it’ll passively reset and also it depends on where you’re putting it if you’re having it in a bedroom you might like a cooler I like a cooler in the bedroom but warm in a living room so you can put 23 in the bedroom 25 in the living room and maybe use an air-conditioned in the middle of summer to pre freeze the bedroom before you go to bed a small one kilowatt unit that you might already have there so this is a hundred combinations of it the big question is what’s the comfort band you like because it spends most of its time in that band between 18 and 23 the sweet spot on that one is twenty point five that’s where it likes to be if you like that temperature go 23 but remember is going to refreeze itself with an idea yeah sample that’s going around it it’s moist because it’s cold and it’s condensing an insertion on the surface it’s unusual because that’s actually very cold when it’s been put into a hot environment so it’s this can the waters too speeding on the outside to that dew point so it’s a good question but in a normal environment the building temperature would be adjusting that same rate as the phase change material because the room would be getting hotter and the material be resisting it so there wouldn’t be a differential there would only be if you took it outside and froze it overnight we thought about this the pensioners heater yeah you could take it outside at night cool it off and bring it inside and put it over your legs in the summertime do your low-cost air conditioner but yeah that’s the reason go ahead sir the more you put in the more energy you get exactly the longer it carries it for at my place I’ve got the m51 which is the middleweight middle temperature in the upstairs ceiling and for seven months we haven’t used an air conditioner or heater not once don’t need it this is enough cold in the night to release just by opening windows and there’s enough heat in the day to charge to keep it warm at night so just by managing those two things you can actually get rid of a lot of heating and cooling loads you’d normally pay for you know wake up in the morning the kids aren’t freezing in their bed anymore because the materials releasing heat or not so it’s much more pleasant to be in the home and there’s no wind and there’s no noise and dry air thinking that what mainly being just asking for cooling if you’re using it for warming and you’ve got a tumor floor can you any saw under the floor it’s a good question the question is based around the idea of why don’t we put more thermal mass in the floor because that’s what we’ve always believed thermal mass goes well in the floor if it’s concrete cuz it’s heavy and the reason for that is too expensive to put it above us the right place where it’s above us just to never been put there because it’s always way too much but remember this doesn’t have any thermal property above 25 and it’s resisting the room getting warm all the way up there so if you had a but the warmth will come upwards anyway so what we find that our place is that if you close the curtains and the ceiling is charged like we’ve got one of those

Canara fireplaces throw some logs in that warms us up while watching TV go to bed fire goes out and we wake up in the morning the house is still warm because the curtains are drawn and the ceiling is warm and the insulation is above it’s there’s nowhere for the heat to go so just slowly passes through the insulation so it’s quite simple to keep your house at 19 20 degrees by the time it gets to morning just using the fireplace in the worst part of winter and you can do the same with a reverse cycle heat pump you could preheat the house during the day in the middle of winter using your solar panels running your aircon directly pre-warm the house 2:23 sun goes down turn off your aircon means you haven’t used any carbon-based electricity and you go to bed and your house is just slowly slowly refreezing and while it’s doing that’s releasing the heat I recall about 25 years ago in commercials a long time ago air conditioned they twelve phase change material iceballs oh yes as Darwin’s Harbor right okay new constructions down there and they were notoriously unsuccessful yes the reason the reason was the material degraded over time so that was the dilemma the material worked brilliantly yeah but it failed so what are we talking it was a glycol or something I think they used salt based products I think was potassium chloride salt with I don’t know what the reason was that it failed but it was supposed to last 10 years in the last 3 1 or 2 years so the product got a bad name because the material didn’t work and which is why they went to the trouble that people had developed this in the US have been developing blood transport products and and food transport products for 30 years and they want to keep the blood at 4 degrees while they transport it so they had to find ways to encapsulate the material so it didn’t break down and the right materials that they lasted a really long time via temperature – yes but ice ice is better to call beardian because it’s twice the thermal mass yes there are so many applications I had a guy the other day he goes this is what I need and I said why he says I’ve got a well down he’s diabetic he’s working in the hot tin shed and it’s too hot from yes to keep coming and sitting in the air-conditioned office to have a half-hour timeout I can make a jacket out of it and put it in the fridge and making people working same thing in a mining shed like the guys who work in those huge trucks are the big wheels they’re out there working in 40 degree days if that trucks off the road for an hour it cost the company ten thousand dollars or more probably if you guys can work because they’ve got a phase change jacket they can work right through the day for the cost of some material in a fridge UV stabilized no no it’ll eventually break down in sunlight it’s not supposed to go outside so just point just when you go to questions god yes yep yeah you can do that to great places yep and you can just you just use some tech screws and screw it up into the floorboard I’ll staple it into the timber and you can do it on a new build but often you can’t get in there on an existing home so on a new build then it’s a good place in the ceiling of the floor below because it gives the building thermal stability and it’s all all tucked away nicely in the installation envelope we give it a seven year warranty yeah that the plastic itself is there’s fourteen different layers of plastic in there to encapsulate their vegetable fat and there’s a fire retardant to stop it burning and a gelling agent to try and keep it together in a putty when it melts it’s not toxic you can burn it it just releases carbon dioxide gas the plastic itself melts away fairly quickly because it’s got no real thermal energy in there but the material itself actually tries to put fires out so has a negative effect on fires content here we’ve had one one case whether somebody got a leak in the product when he was installing it he was not careful with your scissors and cut one of the pouches open so it can happen but the downside of having to repair small patch versus the upside of having a house with no power bills is pretty good trade-off no it explodes I don’t it’s actually it’s just it’s a vegetable fat so if you’ve got under plasterboard it would soak through and maybe make the paint peel a bit yeah just just cut it out and replastering no you just just cut that square out I’m just checking away yeah it’s only one little a big one year you probably could like it doesn’t really parish over time it’s this vegetable felt like olive oil I mean that last for a long time yeah you better to cut it out if you do

damage it gone man yeah I don’t think so I think it’s easy to put in the ceiling it’s much faster put a ceiling fan in yeah just stir up the year so you let the the heat from you get a fireplace have you okay if you have a heater going in there in the middle of winter and then it’ll charge the ceiling and then the ceiling will stay warm as long as it’s insulated above the heat will have no choice but to warm the room yeah that’s the heaviest one that’s actually not on the brochure that’s a new new addition to the family like my wife had a baby last week two new additions to the family there’s a column that’s not there which is in 182 that’s M 91 on the right column so mm 182 s double all those values ten kilograms per square meter exactly right yep and then you can choose temperature ranges the ones that we have stat that are 23 25 27 but we also have anything else you can imagine we’ve got 16 degree 4 degree 37 42 49-67 so you could do a thermal storage tank for hot water unit imagine this 50 liters of phase change material in a stainless steel tank with a copper coil around the outside that’s equivalent to 500 liters of hot water so you could bolt you bought your hot water tank to the wall a really good for when you get a small building envelope to work with it’s a lot of things phase change phase change can do if you just think about it well it’s not very much embodied energy because we have to grow the vegetable fat so it’s much better on that side as far as how many kilowatt hours per year is saved it depends on how well designed the building is and how much air conditioning you’re offsetting so that’s why we say anything with six months to five years a typical financial payback which is probably also a carbon payback 85 it’s tested to 85 years with one milk cycle one freeze cycle per day through an accelerated test facility so heated it melted he didn’t melt that it lost no mess lost no performance over 85 years they gave us it that’s enough so we don’t know what’ll happen after that myself okay just question myself and then all are stable to close um one question is since we can put it in walls and can have it on roofs is there any research to show what I heard was related to people’s feeling of comfort which is it tends to be a perceived heat thing you know like if you’re moving in a volume you’ve got air that moves past you and stuff but part of your perception of the comfort is related to the apparent infrared or ambient temperature of the wall and roof yeah it’s not necessarily exact temperature that’s right it’s they call it or some people call it skin effect where the temperature of the wall affects how you feel like if you walk into a wine cellar besides the fact that there’s all that nice wine there and it’s great to be in there the temperature of the world is cool and you feel cool because the the you you there wall actually pulls the heat out of you like sitting beside a glass when a glass window most windows are glass but sitting beside a window when it’s cold outside you feel cold because of the actual solid material there and that’s why putting on the ceiling is really good somebody who wanted late I’d like everybody to the hands together hold the session excellent presentation you