2020 11 12 Network Advisory Council (NAC) Meeting

Tracy Cook: Morning Tracy, how are you Stark, Marlys: I’m fine, how are you Tracy Cook: Yes, I had better turn off teams Tracy Cook: People that are being pretty active Stark, Marlys: You know, it’s amazing how that works Bruce Newell: Morning. This is Bruce Stark, Marlys: Bruce Bruce Newell: Morning rose Stark, Marlys: And it’s amazing how many clicks it takes to get to the document I want one document that’s all Bruce Newell: It when does this meeting actually officially begin 930. Yep Tracy Cook: give time to Bruce Newell: Oh my goodness. So I’m I’m I’m Bruce Newell: So, that was amazing Tracy Cook: I’m relieved to see you Tracy Cook: Although I did have Jenny Bruce Newell: Yeah, good, good Tracy Cook: All good Bruce Newell: Doc is very Jennie Stapp: good turnout. So Jennie Stapp: We should Jennie Stapp: Go ahead and get started Jennie Stapp: Have a little bit of an expanded group today so Jennie Stapp: Go down our list of Mac members as you hear on the members meeting page and cost you to introduce yourself and then Jennie Stapp: We’ll ask our guests introduce themselves as well Jennie Stapp: Tracy, why don’t we start with you Tracy Cook: I’m Tracy cook with the Montana State Library Orban, Cara: Hi this is Carol urban Montana State Library Jennie Stapp: I’m Jenny state librarian Jennie Stapp: Cody Cody Allen: Oh yeah. Can you guys hear me, sorry Cody Allen: Yeah. This is Cody Allen with the billions Public Library representing the shared catalog Jennie Stapp: Wasn’t sure if she was going to make it today Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Okay, I guess I’ll go with this panel Benjamin all from trails Honore’s iPhoneg: Did you hear me Jennie Stapp: I have Jennie Stapp: A Jennie Stapp: Toy Joy Bridwell: Good morning. I’m dry but on the library Joy Bridwell: Director at stone cow college rocky why Joy Bridwell: Community library Jennie Stapp: And I don’t bear. He’s not with us. And I know he’s had some changes in his designee. Do we have anyone from U of M with us Tracy Cook: Very email me this morning to let me know no one from you and would be able to join us McClain, Sarah: Yeah. Good morning. This is Sarah McClain from the State law library Susie Mcintyre: visits to the McIntyre from the great Paul Public Library Jennie Stapp: See us Jennie Stapp: Bruce Bruce Newell: Bruce new state library Commission Bruce Newell: Good morning Kate Peterson: Good morning. This is Kate Peterson, I represent large high school libraries Jennie Stapp: Linda Doralyn Rossmann: I guess I’ll go ahead. This is Dorian Rossman from Montana State University Jennie Stapp: Nancy posted in the chat Federation representative Jennie Stapp: Joey Jodi Smiley: Hi I’m Jody smiley and I represent the medium sized public libraries Jennie Stapp: And kids Kit Stephenson: Hi, I’m Kim Stevenson from the Boston Public Library and I represent the MLA board Jennie Stapp: Welcome to all the members, replied, you could be with us today. As I said, we also have some special guests. Joining us to part of our discussion that we’re going to have a little bit later in the agenda, Gianna and Victoria, do you want to introduce yourselves jonna underwood: I am Gianna Underwood, I’m the library director at the shirt and County Library in plenty would and I am Chair of the Montana library to go committee

Jennie Stapp: Thanks john Victoria: I’m Victoria allow at the Sheraton County Library as well and I am the current Chair of the content management committee Jennie Stapp: Magic both be with us. We’re going to be expecting a few more additional guests a little bit later on this morning. Some of the state library staff have been posting in the chat, but you’re welcome to introduce yourselves as well. Amy Jennie Stapp: I Amy Marchwick: Lead system administrator for the Montana shared catalog Rebekah Kamp: Hi Rebecca camp here. I’m a system administrator for the Montana shirt catalog Edwards, Jessica: Hi this is Jessica Edwards and the Data Coordinator for the state library Aaron Canen: Aaron Canaan, Montana shared catalog Keiley McGregor: Kylie McGregor Montana shirt catalog Jennifer Birnel: Jennifer. Now the Montana memory project Flick, Joann: I’m Joe flick. I’m your co coordinator Roberta Gebhardt: Good morning. I’m Roberta gephardt I am from the Montana Historical Society Research Center Jennie Stapp: Well, Miss anyone Jennie Stapp: Well, thank you for being with us for our November network advisory council meeting you have a little bit different agenda today we will do some real deep thinking about Jennie Stapp: The nature of the services and systems. We have to support libraries in Montana and and because many of you are involved in those programs and services Jennie Stapp: From the shared catalog to Montana library to go to a Montana memory project. We wanted to be Jennie Stapp: more inclusive as inclusive as possible in some of these early conversations that we want to have. So we’re really glad that you could be with us have just a few Jennie Stapp: Items for the network Advisory Council, the handles part of our normal agenda items you have in your meeting materials have made 28 minutes Jennie Stapp: And we have for your approval, the August 13 draft minutes from our august retreats and any questions and corrections or additions to the minute log for the August retweets Jennie Stapp: Harry none, is there a motion to approve those minutes Kit Stephenson: This is Kim Stevenson. I moved to approve the August 13 2020 minutes Jennie Stapp: There’s an emotion from Nancy in the chat. So Nancy, thank you for that second Jennie Stapp: Any further discussion Jennie Stapp: All those in favor, for the minutes please say aye or signal in the chat Jodi Smiley: Hey, Kate Peterson: Hi. Hi Hi Jennie Stapp: Any Jennie Stapp: Any abstentions Jennie Stapp: Thank you for that Jennie Stapp: We also have where your action poses meeting dates for Jennie Stapp: And just to be clear, we’re planning on having those at least through may be online meetings as well. We’re planning at least through this fiscal year to have our meetings online. So instead, unless something significant changes between now and March Madness Jennie Stapp: Available online and Jennie Stapp: This follows our normal meeting schedule for the network advisory council of the second Tuesday

Jennie Stapp: With the exception of May. And does anybody know of any immediate conflicts when these meeting dates Jennie Stapp: Motion to approve the meeting dates Jennie Stapp: Don’t be shy Kit Stephenson: Quiet This Jennie Stapp: Is your second Honore’s iPhoneg: All secondary to 10 over Jennie Stapp: Things in our Jennie Stapp: Any further discussion Jennie Stapp: All right. All in favor of approving the dates, say aye Joy Bridwell: Aye Aye Jennie Stapp: Any opposed Jennie Stapp: Extensions Jennie Stapp: Alright, we’ll go ahead and get those dates posted on the calendar and Jennie Stapp: Members, so have those are 2021 Jennie Stapp: Staff is also recommending to the network advisory council that make available to us some funds that we have available this year for Jennie Stapp: ongoing professional development. Normally, of course we would hold these meetings in person. And so the budget that we typically have a network advisory council meeting is not being end in that way Jennie Stapp: But we feel like there’s a perhaps an opportunity for the network advisory council to continue to engage with one another Jennie Stapp: Through some professional development opportunities to continue our learning and support of library development so Jennie Stapp: wanted to make you aware that we do have some funding available or online conferences online webinars. Any other kinds of online learning opportunities that you think might benefit you and this council in nor work Jennie Stapp: By Ray development and we’re interested in thoughts that you might have a recommended recommendations that you might make Jennie Stapp: If you have any today. That’s great. If not, if you come across activities or opportunities in the coming weeks and months, we would appreciate it if you would let Tracy know Jennie Stapp: This budget is available to us through September 30 of 2021 and we try to have it spent largely by the end of our fiscal year, but that’s the time period in which we have these funds available to help support professional Jennie Stapp: Any questions, I’m sorry, immediate thoughts about professional development opportunities McClain, Sarah: This is Sarah. I think that’s great. Thank you for extending that McClain, Sarah: Do you are there any particular conferences or training that come to mind Jennie Stapp: Haven’t done a lot of trainings, as a group, so Jennie Stapp: This is an opportunity for us to think about what that could look like Bruce Newell: Is there a central calendar with some Bruce Newell: Kind of training opportunities listed on it Jennie Stapp: So to what extent to those kinds of events get posted on a central calendar. Do you know Flick, Joann: The calendar that we all that I that I post every month Flick, Joann: Is one that our colleagues over at Wyoming State Library put together, but that is really focused on free

Flick, Joann: Training for the most part, and the other opportunities that are out there that that I’ve been directing librarians to our la sponsored events and all of a la is affiliates and even the online. Most of the online training from them is is not free and and beyond that Flick, Joann: There are some services that we’ve licensed in the past that are available for individuals to license from Flick, Joann: People connect it Institute does some we did. We did two months worth of their webinars Flick, Joann: With some extra money. WE HAD LEFTOVER last fiscal year that was June and July. Those are pretty popular and and then there are the Flick, Joann: Things that everybody knows about like Linda calm, which is now LinkedIn learning and we’ve had librarians attend training programs through that program as well, like our leadership institute did a Flick, Joann: A cohort that that attended a time management course with LinkedIn learning. So some of those. Some of you some libraries actually already license Flick, Joann: Those services for their patrons. There’s quite a bit out there, but in library land. A lot of it is free, except for the LA content, which is very good, of course, but not free Flick, Joann: So to answer the question Flick, Joann: Always help Flick, Joann: You know, if you have a topic you want to learn about Flick, Joann: And ask me, I, chances are, I probably know where to go to find it. So feel free to send me an email and direct you to a couple of providers Bruce Newell: But I think that’s helpful and I I saw that Susie reminded us of ripple which is terrific. I wonder if there’s anything specific to any of the activities of Montana library to go or the shared catalog or something that would be helpful to to help people with the cost of Jennie Stapp: Also, thinking that today’s discussion might spark some ideas Jennie Stapp: So as I said, we have a little bit different agenda for us today and Jennie Stapp: Stephen and Bruce and a few others have been thinking a lot over the last Jennie Stapp: Several months and our thoughts have sort of started to solidify a little bit in the last few weeks about the nature of our services and how we organize and support. A lot of our services and Jennie Stapp: So this is bringing back some ideas that have floated around the state library for really many, many years in the form of what we used to refer to as the Montana library network, as some of you probably actually remember logos and Jennie Stapp: Mental library network brandy of that language and terminology kind of fallen by the wayside over the last several years Jennie Stapp: But as we’ve spent some time thinking and talking about our services from a more collaborative and more systemic approach Jennie Stapp: That idea of Montana library network has resurfaced and surface in a way that we think is worth exploring with all of you. And if you think it’s worth further exploration with the Commission and with the wider Montana library community Jennie Stapp: And so as I said earlier, we wanted to first have this discussion with the network Advisory Council Jennie Stapp: Because the primary advisory council advising us on matters of library development and we felt like it was most important to have Jennie Stapp: This conversation with you first. And we did want to invade a wider community to participate in these discussions because there are our advisory groups of subject matter experts and specialists in different areas of Jennie Stapp: The services that we offer that have expertise include lend themselves well to being a part of this kind of discussion Jennie Stapp: So we’ve organized a very deliberate agenda to help us think through some of the concepts that are in our minds to get your thoughts and feedback as we move forward

Jennie Stapp: This is intended to be a very interactive kind of discussion where we at the state library and hope to do a lot of listening. So really want to encourage your engagement in the conversation Jennie Stapp: Vast we have some specific questions that we like to hear from you about, but if you have additional thoughts and comments as we go along the way. I hope you’ll share those as well and Jennie Stapp: I’m going to ask Bruce to maybe give us a little bit of background on the Montana library networks and history and just some of his thoughts about why Jennie Stapp: You’re thinking about in approaching these services right now. And then I want to share some opportunities that I’ve been thinking about as well Jennie Stapp: Bruce. Thank you Bruce Newell: Oh, sure. I’m, I’m always happy as I think when talking or thinking about cooperative Library Services Montana professionally. I think that was the has been what has always interested me most Bruce Newell: The week as many of you as most of you know all of you know their State Library back in 1999 begin a program called the Montana library network or MLM and that actually sprang from a combination of things largely residing in technical services Bruce Newell: rolling back the calendar back into the late 80s Bruce Newell: Montana libraries used to send Interlibrary Loan requests to a utility located in Seattle at the University of Washington, called the Pacific Northwest bibliographic center at NBC, they had a master catalog of Bruce Newell: main entry cards from libraries all around the Northwest and when one library wants to borrow a book, but didn’t know where to find it because it wasn’t in the National Indian catalog or or national Bruce Newell: The serials catalog or whatever they would send an al a request to NBC and NBC would would add would would would note three Bruce Newell: locations in the Pacific Northwest that own that book, send it back to the requesting library, who would then initiate an interlibrary loan request using that al a request form Bruce Newell: Which was way more cumbersome to do then was to describe. But you can tell pretty cumbersome to to describe you know in average Interlibrary Loan time response time from a patient’s point of view was least two or three weeks and more more likely double that Bruce Newell: So it was very expensive and very slow Bruce Newell: A few libraries in the state had Bruce Newell: Big beehive terminals and connected to. OCLC that state law library did in Montana, the Geological Survey library and billings did and Carol did. And I think that that’s it Bruce Newell: So at some point Bruce Newell: The P NBC kind of changed into the Western library. I’m sorry, the Washington library network, who in a couple years to to transform itself into the Western library network, the Montana was part of that Bruce Newell: And there were terminals that connected us to their database which had both cataloging information interlibrary loan Bruce Newell: And so request came through the state library and and some of the larger libraries acquired terminals to contact them I think billings was one of them Bruce Newell: Of course, all the universities and so forth. I’m pretty sure the universities also had OCLC earlier Bruce Newell: But then there’s this kind of really cool thing happened W land started publishing microfiche copies of their entire database with holdings Bruce Newell: And so libraries had this the sort of a network they had this this directory of may have cataloging and locations for materials in the northwest. The microfiche and that change to CDs Bruce Newell: At that point, not many libraries in Montana head PCs Bruce Newell: Personal computers to Bruce Newell: Look at that database and the networking task force, which is what the the network advisory council was called in those days, started awarding LSTM grants, rather than to individual projects, only they started having a program of giving Bruce Newell: Of granting PC setups with a compact disc player than two, then three two libraries around the state, so that they could participate in in this wealth of cataloging information and holdings. So it really helped cataloguing that really helped

Bruce Newell: Interlibrary Loan didn’t do a lot for the public in terms of their access to materials, but it was a major step up. We were just talking earlier, Tracy and I about Al Randall, who used to be on the state library commission and he was part of the networking Task Force, and he said, Bruce Newell: You know, we’re going to take in continue giving a granting public libraries terminals in in in compact disc players Bruce Newell: So that everyone every public library in the state has access to this great device which at that point was called laser cat until everyone who wants one has one. And that was a really big change at the state library level from kind of parceling out Bruce Newell: Library Service and Technology Act monies to individual grant requests. So individual libraries have come up with a project and they would put in the grant requests and they either get or not, but that was sort of a Bruce Newell: You know, a shot here a shot. They’re two different libraries for different projects to more centralized projects Bruce Newell: moving rapidly ahead to 1999 there was a proposal that what we do is use all of our library service and technology X funds, rather than giving them two grants, let’s spend them centrally Bruce Newell: And the, the, the networking task force if it was called that. At that point, sort of started transforming itself into the networking Advisory Council who acted as a as a public library or as a library board in effect for this this something that was called the Montana library network Bruce Newell: At this at this I joined the state library region in the state library at that point, we went around the state, asking libraries around the state. What kind of things that they want to have in that in that service Bruce Newell: And, you know, at that point, we had a database. I think it was, Gail. At that point, we can’t remember Bruce Newell: Had a database serial database service. We talked about a statewide. OCLC contract which there was Bruce Newell: They didn’t offer that to any other states as to my, to my knowledge, but we talked to them about that we talked about something called Montana Deanna which has has thankfully that changed its name to the Montana memory project Bruce Newell: There was some other he content there were some sort of combined reference services. We talked about Bruce Newell: And Bruce Newell: As we went around gathering ideas from different libraries in the state Lewis town Public Library came up with the idea of sort of, why don’t we have a shared catalog and from that the Montana share catalog kind of took root Bruce Newell: With a lot of enthusiastic reaction, particularly in the western part of the state. And from that MLM came into being in sort of formed this sort of this this cooperative model for for statewide statewide library services that that we all kind of enjoy now Bruce Newell: That is kind of as kind of the that’s kind of the history, you know, a lot of a lot of the notion of the history was an all the notion of MLM was to give more power Bruce Newell: More abilities to Montana libraries, the notion was to do it in such way that any Montana library that wanted to join could join Bruce Newell: And all we played with we played with courier services actually OCLC gave us money to take in mail materials around at no cost to patrons your libraries for a while. Just to see how well that would work Bruce Newell: And those of you who remember that can can describe how well that worked. I think it worked pretty well from the patrons point of view, but we weren’t sure exactly how it was going to scale financially Bruce Newell: We tried all sorts of stuff in the stuff that persisted is the stuff that the the network Advisory Council now Bruce Newell: plays with as as sort of its concept of of Bruce Newell: Of what cooperative library service in Montana is Bruce Newell: getting near the end of this monologue. Sorry Bruce Newell: Let’s talk about about more recent history and three of the why Bruce Newell: I think all of us are deep deeply want every month. Hannon to enjoy Bruce Newell: If not the same library services enough library services to meet their needs, that there are no, there are no more or less deserving Montanans in terms of receiving library services to that effect. A couple years ago this Commission Bruce Newell: adopted a resolution that said that our goal in everything

Bruce Newell: Is to Bruce Newell: To work towards getting sick so that every Montana and has sufficient library services. And that doesn’t mean Bruce Newell: You know Montanans who don’t live on the reservoir do live on the rez or on the Highline are on the on the interstate cord or or or whatever it says every Montana gets the library services they need to thrive Bruce Newell: And we understand that that is a Bruce Newell: A lofty goal a difficult to achieve goal. But the notion is pushed by this resolution Bruce Newell: The State Library Commission state library would start to both encourage that in all libraries Bruce Newell: But also start shaping its resource allocation her budget in, how are our employees spend their time and how we spend our money to move in that direction Bruce Newell: And Jenny, that’s kind of the so sort of the, the encapsulated you have Bruce Newell: Both our hopes Bruce Newell: As as sort of directed by the Commission resolution and also the sort of a brief very brief look at the history of how we got where we got Bruce Newell: I think, I think I should say. Finally, and then I will click my mute, but Bruce Newell: I had the privilege of serving on the serving with OCLC for a while on their board and on some of their advisory councils and what we have in Montana is unique Bruce Newell: I can think of no other Bruce Newell: Public Library System in the United States or public library or system abroad in Europe or Asia or Africa Bruce Newell: That has the level of willing cooperation that Montana enjoys that is our greatest strength Bruce Newell: And I feel, I feel I know not to take and skate around the obvious here. I know that there are still stresses and strains that have come about with our success in terms of cooperating, particularly Bruce Newell: Amongst those those shared catalog libraries that they call themselves partners that are partners and Bruce Newell: That looks to me from my rather lofty Bruce Newell: In perhaps not really high resolution view Bruce Newell: It looks to me like sort of normal growing pains. So we’ve done really remarkable stuff. No one else in the world has moved cooperative library service Bruce Newell: in quite the same way, or maybe quite as far as have we we’re now at the stage where we need to figure out whether we want to push it to the next step Bruce Newell: And what it takes to do that. And I think that is sort of our discussion for the rest of the day and I’m unbelievably excited to hear what people have to say thank you Jennie Stapp: Thank you. Any questions for Bruce. How many of us experienced much of what Bruce has talked about some have been around for all those changes Jennie Stapp: It is really fascinating to hear that background that led us to the point that we’re at Today, Jennie Stapp: I appreciate you sharing that background because I am reminded that Jennie Stapp: You are standing on the shoulders of those who came before us a lot of people who Jennie Stapp: put a lot of thought into building the kinds of systems and programs that many of us really take for granted today. No, it wasn’t that long ago that they really didn’t exist and certainly didn’t exist before that they exist today. And so people like Jennie Stapp: Her nor and Sarah Hugh and our Randall, and all of those thought about how we can Jennie Stapp: Really collaborate really achieve that kind of vision for Jennie Stapp: The equitable library services in the state of Montana that lead us like they’re at today and and the work isn’t done there’s opportunities to work. So I wanted to share some of my thoughts about what brought us to this point what some of the opportunities that I see are as well Jennie Stapp: And the point I wanted to make an addition to thinking about those that came before. And what brought us here is is as Bruce said I really truly Jennie Stapp: Believe in many of you have heard me say this before. What we have in Montana is truly you know that I get to hear from colleagues around the country

Jennie Stapp: About the kinds of library services that they are trying to support in their states and the degree to which we are able to collaborate really is unparalleled in other states Jennie Stapp: Many states don’t work closely with our state libraries that libraries don’t work closely with each other even during the pandemic. The idea of putting online a shared Jennie Stapp: shared calendar of library programs with something hard to get off the ground states, those are the kinds of things that I think we are able to do easily Jennie Stapp: But easily in perhaps a way that causes us to take those opportunities for granted Jennie Stapp: And I’m grateful for the opportunities we have to work with one another. I think we need to remind ourselves that it does take hard work to continue to support those kinds of programs and services and to think about what comes next, and Jennie Stapp: Other thoughts that have sort of led me to this point in time are questions that I received from the Commission about Jennie Stapp: What does it cost provide these kinds of services. What has the impact of the pandemic, then what is the future of library services, what comes next Jennie Stapp: Those are, those are interesting, challenging hard questions they’re certainly not questions just for the state library. There are questions that Jennie Stapp: Need to be informed by all of us working together. That’s really the role of the network advisory council is why we lean on the network advisory council. That’s why we have different advisory groups or different kinds of services and programs that we support Jennie Stapp: Some of the nature of the services that we support and some of the questions we ask ourselves about them, are, are fairly unique to those kinds of services Jennie Stapp: For example, as we grew the shared catalog. We saw changes Interlibrary Loan beside changes in cataloging was changes inform how we approach our OCLC group services Jennie Stapp: Many of the kinds of questions that we ask ourselves related to our services. So across different kinds of services that we offer Jennie Stapp: You know, how has the pandemic and impacting these kinds of services. How do you use their behaviors and new user expectations change how we think about services that we offer. How might we approach services with an eye to multi type libraries and deeper kinds of collaboration Jennie Stapp: Some more concrete examples as well. When I think about how we might think about different services Jennie Stapp: We have Montana library to go, which, by its very nature supports cooperative collection development. So what do we know about cooperative question development that might help us think about Jennie Stapp: Election development Jennie Stapp: Just mentioned some of the growing pains that some of our groups are going through Jennie Stapp: I’ve only begun thinking about some of those challenges with resource sharing both regards to how we are sharing materials amongst ourselves as well as the supply side time Jennie Stapp: Thinking about how does collection development also inform how we share resources with one another Jennie Stapp: If we have as a goal as Bruce said a library system in Montana that provides access to information sufficient to Montana’s needs. How does that take into account Jennie Stapp: Really trying to strive to provide equitable library services when the resources we have to provide those services are not equal across the state. And how do those inequities impact our library services is a really deep questions that Jennie Stapp: We struggle to address and we think we need to pull together all of you and all of us working together to think about those, those kinds of questions across our, our Jennie Stapp: Services. They’re certainly not questions that we wants to answer today or even coming weeks and months, but I think through some more deliberative more systemic thinking. These are the kinds of questions that we can pose to the network Advisory Council

Jennie Stapp: And to subject matter experts Jennie Stapp: In the service Seanathan: Areas Jennie Stapp: I wanted to ask, Tracy to share a link a minute provide a little bit more background Jennie Stapp: There’s a pie chart and many of you I’m sure have seen this pie chart. It originated with working Dempsey or OCLC when work and came out to an offline conference Jennie Stapp: Many years ago, I can’t remember how long ago now, he talked about library services Jennie Stapp: That really scalable, you talked about providing infrastructure for library services in really scalable ways and he encouraged us to think about library services that could scale Jennie Stapp: In collaborative ways that if they were sort of taking care of would allow local libraries to really focus on their local communities to really have that kind of local engagement that we strive for Jennie Stapp: This approach to thinking about Library Services has really sort of become a mantra for the state library where we think about what kinds of scalable infrastructure Jennie Stapp: Might need provide making sure that infrastructure is innovative and available to all libraries that want to participate Jennie Stapp: In ways that allow local libraries, then to think about the very specific needs of your communities and to tailor and customize your services to meet those very specific needs Jennie Stapp: This is something that we’ve really strived to achieve Jennie Stapp: But I think in some ways what we’ve seen is a somewhat siloed approach to thinking about the kinds of services that we offer Jennie Stapp: Montana library to go, while it originated with a lot of libraries that are Montana shared catalog libraries Jennie Stapp: Is really thought of separately in many ways from the Montana share catalog has a separate and executive board. It has members who are shared catalog members but members were not shared catalog members Jennie Stapp: And you haven’t really tried to cross pollinate or share a lot of the learning between runtime library to go in and the Montana shared catalog in a deliberate way Jennie Stapp: A couple of years ago, the state library staff were talking about how to extend ebook offerings and those conversations are certainly going on within Montana library to go Jennie Stapp: I was very interested in exploring the Digital Public Library of America pilots and someone will call that we brought those discussions to the network Advisory Council Jennie Stapp: At the same time, the Montana share catalog was also looking at people offerings and we realized that we weren’t approaching that question in a deliberate way we are, in fact, approaching how to Jennie Stapp: Improve ebook services in a very siloed way and it certainly wasn’t efficient or effective and I think there’s a lot of learning that can come from thinking about the services in a more deliberate less siloed fashion Jennie Stapp: Few other thoughts as we think about how we might approach some of the questions that we’ve brought to the network advisory council and how they impact sort of a systemic way of thinking Jennie Stapp: You’ve been having conversations of late, as you know about Equity, Diversity and inclusion Jennie Stapp: I’m very interested to think about what he looks like from a collections perspective, from a systems perspective Jennie Stapp: In terms of resource sharing and online access to information in terms of the programming that we offer. I would love to have Jennie Stapp: A process and a system in place that allows staff to bring those kinds of questions to groups of librarians and asked me to think Jennie Stapp: in very specific ways about those kinds of questions that can yield results that we might not otherwise. Think about because of your strong expertise in those specific areas Jennie Stapp: Think there’s opportunities for us to really think more proactively as I said about the future of library services

Jennie Stapp: And how that future shapes the different programs and services we offer to think about changes in user behavior and user needs and how those might shape our library services. Again, these are questions that I would love to be able to bring to Jennie Stapp: The knack and subject matter experts to think about in a very deliberate way Jennie Stapp: At least every five years, we have to prepare a library services Technology Act plan and you have to then review that plan every five years as well Jennie Stapp: I think we can take more deliberate approach to creating that plan if we think more deliberately about the services that we’re striving to offer what success looks like when we think about those kinds of services all those services when brought together in a very deliberate way Jennie Stapp: Help us to achieve that goal of providing sufficient library services and information services to all my cannons Jennie Stapp: I think we can be proactive in thinking about what the costs are and where there might be opportunities or more effective collaboration Jennie Stapp: Many of you know that the state library used to have the funding for statewide databases and we would manage that contract and go through those procurements with with the network Advisory Council Jennie Stapp: When that funding was lost it resulted in individual libraries sticky those kinds of resources on their own Jennie Stapp: And we’re not leveraging those dollars as effectively as we might are not leveraging people’s time to go through those types of sermons Jennie Stapp: And it’s certainly resulting in haves and have nots across the state with libraries that are better able to afford those services preparing them for your patrons and those libraries that don’t have the resources Jennie Stapp: And that’s something that I’m very concerned about and something I think we need to find a way to address regardless of what funding you have available to us right now Jennie Stapp: I also think that if we are able to think about our, our services in a more systemic way it’s going to create opportunities for us to test new ideas Jennie Stapp: In the past network advisory council used to talk about pilots projects and programs. And I think we have a set of benchmarks in mind set of success metrics Jennie Stapp: Might be able to better think about new programs and new services and test them in ways that help us evaluate whether or not those pilots help us to achieve those kinds of success that we’re looking for Jennie Stapp: I hope that I think it in this way we can prioritize how we would approach those kinds of opportunities together Jennie Stapp: I also hope that in this way of thinking when we’re presented with opportunities Jennie Stapp: Including funding as what occurred this spring through the cares act funding as a result of endemic we’re better able to say we invest these monies in this way. You think we’re going to have a greater impact Jennie Stapp: I think we can plan for the future in a better way. If we have a more deliberate more systemic way of thinking Jennie Stapp: So that when I go to staff and say, you know, what should the trust for Montana libraries be thinking about trying to fund, we have Jennie Stapp: Answers to those kinds of questions, those answers shouldn’t just come from our staff, they should be well informed by the network Advisory Council and in thinking about how through our programs and services, we’re really working hard to achieve that vision of the fair access resolution Jennie Stapp: As I said, there’s, there’s a lot of questions and a lot of opportunities that I’ve been thinking about that I’ve been posing to staff Commission has been posing to me and closing to staff Jennie Stapp: What I hope you can think about and then begin to think about more deliberately with the Commission in the wider library community is what it might look like for us to think about our services in a more systemic way Jennie Stapp: What kinds of success. We hope we might be able to achieve what that infrastructure might need to look like in order for us to achieve that kind of

Jennie Stapp: Systemic forms of library infrastructure and services. What kinds of governing models might Jennie Stapp: Be most effective to help us plan for and deliver these services, as well as to be really future focused as we think about these kinds of services Jennie Stapp: So, Jennie Stapp: Those are the kinds of questions I wanted to raise today to lend some thinking to the questions and the facilitated discussion that we want wanted to have with all of you Jennie Stapp: In your agenda, we have a series of questions and Tracy is going to help us facilitate some discussion, as I said before, this is really a day where we want to listen to all of you as much as as Jennie Stapp: Us talking about what opportunities and hopes that we see as you know we do this work and for all of you. And in support of the work that you do with your communities and so Jennie Stapp: Our success really depends on how successful these services are in your communities to your users. And so that’s why it’s so important for us to make sure that is as we are considering these kinds of future direction. It’s really with most sincere input Jennie Stapp: I’m going to stop there and ask if there’s any questions or comments Honore’s iPhoneg: So, Honore’s iPhoneg: This, this is Honore’s iPhoneg: The work and I’m Honore’s iPhoneg: You know that the public library holds the heritage question ancestry contract for the state of Montana Honore’s iPhoneg: And so when I asked in the spring for pricing Honore’s iPhoneg: For the libraries and they sent it back in late summer Honore’s iPhoneg: And then I sent the bills out and many libraries said we’re not going to be able to do it this year because of funding Honore’s iPhoneg: And so I got back with Pro quest and said, so these libraries need to drop out. And she said, well, then we’re going to have to reprice for the rest of you Honore’s iPhoneg: And I said, Well, I’ve already started to collect money from people would you think about this year, leaving it at this price, and then we’ll see if we can add libraries for next year and it really brought home to me WL and because Honore’s iPhoneg: I was on the network Advisory Council when we Honore’s iPhoneg: Are the whatever it was called back then when we purchased all the databases with the state money and it. We did it because we were looking at equity across the state Honore’s iPhoneg: And it really brought back home to me that you know we’ve been doing things much differently in the last few years Honore’s iPhoneg: And it’s making a bigger divide rather than equity across the state. So I’m, I’m really glad that you began thinking about this Honore’s iPhoneg: Process again because I think it was really important. Um, and I know the databases weren’t well used at that time. And so we drop them but um I think that during this time when people have been at home and needing something to do databases have become very important again so Honore’s iPhoneg: I am really happy that you’re bringing this back up again because I think it does. Um, Honore’s iPhoneg: Cause equity rather than division across the state. If we fund some things Honore’s iPhoneg: All together rather than separately Jennie Stapp: Appreciate that Jennie Stapp: Any other Jennie Stapp: Thoughts Jennie Stapp: 1030 and and we are going to ask you to do some more thinking. So Tracy suggested a 10 minute break to get some coffee and take care of a personal needs and stretch those thinking muscles. So why don’t we come back at and worry

Bruce Newell: My birthday present Jennie Stapp: Hey, Bruce Newell: We just indeed Jennie Stapp: Make a note that Flick, Joann: I just want to point out the flicker is my namesake Joe flick Bruce Newell: Oh, of course. Of course Flick, Joann: Thought I’d mentioned that. Okay Bruce Newell: But unlike the flicker. You are never flighty Flick, Joann: You don’t know me that well Flick, Joann: I do have my moments Bruce Newell: We all Bruce Newell: We all Bruce Newell: Know is good news, I’m Thank you Jenny, that’s really good news. Cool Jennie Stapp: I have 1041 Jennie Stapp: Wanted to ask before we continue with our discussion if Jennie Stapp: Anybody had any thoughts or questions or comments that occurred to you over the break Jennie Stapp: Or any staff does any staff have any thoughts they want to share Jennie Stapp: I’ll turn things over to you Tracy Cook: Alright Tracy Cook: I will share my screen Tracy Cook: And I’m actually going to pull up this pad, which I posted the link in the chat Tracy Cook: Which is not coming up for me. Here we go. And I can post it again to Tracy Cook: Because versus getting lots of birthday wishes, which is wonderful Bruce Newell: Thank you very much Tracy Cook: So this is if you haven’t played with palette before all of you are going to be able to click on that link and add Tracy Cook: Your ideas and this is a way that all of us can participate at the same time. And you can use kind of your own words to describe this Tracy Cook: This particular section of the neck meeting is really asking us to think about our end users and our community members and I wanted to do this for a couple of reasons. The first is I know Bruce talks about this quite a bit night. I will say I do agree with him Tracy Cook: It’s very important for us to start with the people we serve Tracy Cook: And I think most librarians naturally do that. We don’t always remember to do that first film, we’re thinking about the design of our services, we kind of do Tracy Cook: But it’s just totally human and natural to, like, and I do it myself to jump into the weeds of this is the service we provide. And this is what it looks like Tracy Cook: And what did thinking about the outcomes at the beginning makes us do is think about what is it we’re really trying to achieve what good do people receive from libraries Tracy Cook: And perhaps this is even more relevant to me now as I’m teaching more advocacy because advocacy is in some ways influencing others. And one of the best way to influence others to be able to explain what exactly it is that libraries do for people Tracy Cook: The other reason. I think this is pretty valuable in a singing about the LSC a five year plan. And one of the easiest goals to describe Tracy Cook: Is every Montana has access to the Internet, which is incredibly huge and big. And yet at the same time, it’s, it’s very concrete Tracy Cook: And as I think about our services when we’re working on that goal. There’s a multitude of services, we’re trying Tracy Cook: To offer and a multitude of things we’re trying to do to achieve that goal. So that’s why I’m kind of asking us to think about community centered outcomes. So you do have to like this is interactive, you have to play Tracy Cook: This pilot is available to you. I put an example on here so you can see what I’m looking for. And I put people who use libraries, we might actually Tracy Cook: even want to think about people who don’t use libraries and what needs they might have met by the library services. There’s a little plus sign Tracy Cook: And you can just click on that and it will pop the pamphlet in there and then you can title it and then write something in. So we’re going to start out with, like, what outcomes. We think libraries deliver to people Tracy Cook: And then we’re going to go back to each of those outcomes and identify what services help make that happen

Tracy Cook: So that makes sense. All right, go for it. It should start changing as people at Kit Stephenson: Tracy, I think the plus sign went away Tracy Cook: Probably cuz I’m it should be healed Kit Stephenson: Oh, there it is. Yeah, maybe. Cuz that one was open Okay Bruce Newell: So the parable of thing is one thing at a time thing Tracy Cook: I thought I had it set up so that everybody could go Flick, Joann: To Tracy, this is Joe Flick, Joann: Yeah, I would suggest maybe people don’t know they have to go to the link in the chat box to access the palette, not the what they’re seeing on their zoom screen Tracy Cook: Yeah, here let me share the link again because I thought I had it set up so that anybody Flick, Joann: It works Flick, Joann: It works in Flick, Joann: On the Flick, Joann: Internet, but if you’re trying to click on the plus sign on your zoom screen that’s just a picture of it, not the actual thing Flick, Joann: So you have to open up another tab in your browser and use the link in the chat box to get started Tracy Cook: So free to move your pad like around, by the way Victoria: Can you move the little squares around on the Tracy Cook: Yeah, you should be able to by just clicking and dragging. So here I’m going to grab a couple of these Victoria: Because I can’t see them all the same time Victoria: Yeah, I can’t do it on my end maybe only A weird Victoria: Summer like at the clear at the bottom Tracy Cook: We’re starting to see themes. I think Tracy Cook: And I’m kind of channeling my inner ripple facilitator. When I asked that question Tracy Cook: And you should be able to comment on any of these. So as you’re looking at these there’s one that you also have a question about, feel free to just click on the little comment thing

Tracy Cook: To be able to comment Tracy Cook: So this is another good one Tracy Cook: That’s a powerful concept we talked about in libraries become a safe space. But what does the person get from that Tracy Cook: Start doing now, but please continue to add as a minister to group the ones that are kind of similar like safe spaces or Internet access training and education together and then we’ll talk as a group about Tracy Cook: What services libraries provide that support that Jennie Stapp: Right now that use language so that Jennie Stapp: That’s a great way to describe an outcome you trends Jennie Stapp: Access the library so that if you’re thinking about user centered outcomes, maybe think about what comes next. What’s the so that Stephens Tracy Cook: So this is one that actually crosses a lot Tracy Cook: Because when you’re talking about education and Tracy Cook: Research and connecting so maybe I’ll just kind of put this here Tracy Cook: And it’s amazing how difficult this is Tracy Cook: So if you find yourself kind of like your brains really working hard. That’s actually normal Tracy Cook: When I was first introduced to these concepts I think probably my first takeaway was realizing how many times I was library centric in the wording that I used. It’s very, very natural to be that way Tracy Cook: Let’s move these up so I can move them around Tracy Cook: Kind of collection development here Bruce Newell: This is a fairly clever tool Tracy Cook: Yes, it is. And it’s kind of nice because you can actually collect people’s words. You know, as a facilitator. I’m not accidentally re saying them in a way that isn’t what people mean Tracy Cook: And I think this is a very good point. Some people don’t use libraries, because they can’t go to the library have no way to get there Tracy Cook: That’s a barrier to library usage. So I’m going to save that Tracy Cook: And please side over here, because that is one of the things we would need to think about whatever we do, what are the barriers that are keeping people from using libraries to

Tracy Cook: That looks like Bruce one Tracy Cook: So as we think about this Tracy Cook: What do patrons. Get out of being able to see themselves reflected in the Library’s collection Tracy Cook: To add a comment Tracy Cook: It’s just a kind of help and sort of seeing what we’re getting out here Tracy Cook: See an easy way to like comment on that Tracy Cook: Oh, nice Tracy Cook: So we’ve got a lot of kind of Ed, I Tracy Cook: Work in this Tracy Cook: Alright, so I’ll give you a couple more minutes Tracy Cook: And then what I want us to do is go in and think about what services libraries provide that helps meet that outcome Tracy Cook: And put all the kind of epi ones over here Bruce Newell: Well, what does he do Tracy Cook: Equity, Diversity and Inclusion. Thanks, Bruce Tracy Cook: Thank you. Yep Bruce Newell: Your quarter Tracy Cook: Yep, I do Tracy Cook: checks in the mail Bruce Newell: Thanks. I look forward to it Tracy Cook: All right, am I missing any Tracy Cook: Oh, yeah Susie Mcintyre: I’m on when I’m on Ben mo Tracy, so you can just send it that way Oh, Tracy Cook: Yeah, same sinus way Tracy Cook: Some really good ones in here Stark, Marlys: You still have one glue down at the bottom to Tracy Cook: Thank you, Marla Tracy Cook: Connection Tracy Cook: Looks like education Tracy Cook: Any more Tracy Cook: Information Literacy hope education is ok for that one Tracy Cook: move this down Tracy Cook: Cuz here Tracy Cook: Education Tracy Cook: So there’s a lot of libraries about being a safe space and libraries also connecting people, which I think is an important concept to kind of think about Tracy Cook: So, Jennifer Birnel: Busy, I think there’s still one down at the bottom of the page, it looks like when you hit whoever hits look plus sign last kind of gets shifted way down. So if you scroll down, I think you might see one more

Tracy Cook: I am all the way down. Yeah Jennifer Birnel: Maybe you found it already Jennifer Birnel: Okay, different on my screen so Jennifer Birnel: I’m on the tablet tablet Jennifer Birnel: URL. It looks different than on what I’m seeing on your screen Okay Tracy Cook: All right Tracy Cook: So we moved this one off so Tracy Cook: We have kind of Internet access digital digital services Tracy Cook: This one I’m not sure where to put. So, what I see is one like employment one internet column for Internet access one for kind of research Tracy Cook: One that goes across all of them. I wasn’t sure where to put these because these for me are more like behind the scenes kind of some of those poor that happens Tracy Cook: So I’ll just kind of group these together Tracy Cook: And I put this one under the education. So we have employment Internet access research safety social connection and well being reading for pleasure and then kind of an education Tracy Cook: And then we have over here in this final column sort of the practical tools that people do use all of the time. I’m okay with moving that kind of more in that Internet access if people would like to do that. Any thoughts on that Tracy Cook: Okay. And then down here we have our kind of Ed AI collection Tracy Cook: So the next step in this is I’d like us to think about kind of what services Tracy Cook: We provide that achieves these outcomes. I think the best way to do this is to just add a comment. So you just click on the comment you should all be able to comment let me know if you’re not Tracy Cook: And let’s just list all of the library services we provide that supports the outcomes that are listed Bruce Newell: I notice Tracy when I’m over on the Bruce Newell: I have to shift, of course, to the to the application page to add a comment, I believe Tracy Cook: Yes Bruce Newell: I do that my notes are sort of all piled on top of each other Tracy Cook: Oh, interesting Bruce Newell: Well, maybe, maybe that’s just me. Hopefully that’s just me Tracy Cook: That might be what Jennifer was talking about. And yes, Jennifer, that’s actually where I was going. And I will put labels Pamela Jennifer Birnel: So I just hit the refresh button I’m my internet site in it sorted on the way Jennifer Birnel: Tracy hasn’t started Jennie Stapp: Just Jennifer Birnel: Might give that attract Bruce because I was having a similar issue till I hit refresh Bruce Newell: Excellent. Yes. That’s excellent. Thank you Tracy Cook: For those of you who are familiar with the ease of libraries. I actually have no idea where to put Internet access it doesn’t fit with employment, education engagement or empowerment Jennie Stapp: Oh, it’s not an outcome Tracy Cook: Yeah, that’s kind of what I’m Jennie Stapp: Thinking about it everywhere Tracy Cook: Mm hmm Jennie Stapp: You know, when you talk about services. This planet internet is one of those

Flick, Joann: This is Joe, I mean, while the internet is a tool access to the internet isn’t a measurable observable outcome Flick, Joann: Because there’s degrees of access and it differs from place to place Tracy Cook: I guess I would say the, I think what Tracy Cook: Jenny and I are saying though is even for a person the access to the Internet is used for a purpose and that purpose can be entertainment. It can be education and could be looking for a job. And those are the outcomes we’re looking for is like they get a job or they can do their homework Tracy Cook: Does that make sense. I think that’s kind of what we were going for Susie Mcintyre: Well, I think Internet access facilitates a lot of engagement entertainment. You know, it kind of falls into all of the different areas Tracy Cook: So Cara. What would you put social and emotional well being Tracy Cook: Engagement or empowerment Orban, Cara: Well, Orban, Cara: I have to look at the document. Again, I noticed that it came up a lot in the federation notes that I was coding Orban, Cara: And was using the five E’s to as a controlled vocabulary for those themes as well. And I put Internet access under empowerment and Orban, Cara: Double check on that Tracy Cook: It’s interesting how just putting columns on them Tracy Cook: Actually Tracy Cook: Really makes things come together and you see when you’re in the what and when you’re in the why Tracy Cook: So I see we have some comments starting to show up. So go ahead and as I could very well have been moving the little pellet on you while you were typing Tracy Cook: Go ahead and put on this one here Tracy Cook: So one thing that jumps out at me when I look at this kind of list that you have is how many things fall under education

Tracy Cook: Or I lumped engagement and empowerment together in the five E’s of libraries engagement is kind of those social and community connections and empowerment can be improving yourself and also civic engagement and so forth Tracy Cook: As we go through Tracy Cook: Does anyone want to share, like a comment that they added, what I will Tracy Cook: Do is kind of on the next break, I will go through the comments and Tracy Cook: Kind of pull them out so we can see what services were saying we should offer unless you know I think Joe you’ve used Padma. Do you know an easy way for me to display the comments Tracy Cook: Or is it in fact like I think just to type Tracy Cook: Go ahead, like Flick, Joann: I don’t know Flick, Joann: Okay but but i can research that while you’re going on Tracy Cook: All right Tracy Cook: Okay, so give people a couple more minutes to add comments Tracy Cook: And if you thought of anything else Tracy Cook: Oops, we have another one Tracy Cook: Alright Tracy Cook: So as you were going through this exercise, one of the questions that I asked on the agenda was Tracy Cook: Kind of a sweet defined outcomes. And we thought about what services deliver those outcomes and how are they connected as you were looking at this list and you were adding your comments. Did you see a way that the services were connected Susie Mcintyre: Me. Say that again Tracy Cook: So as you were adding your comments to these outcomes in particular, did you find yourself like typing in services and thinking Tracy Cook: Oh, this is related to X, Y, or Z. Do you know what I mean. Because, like for instance a service like I could say libraries offering internet access Tracy Cook: Through either mobile hotspots or public labs can help with employment can help with education and can help with engagement empowerment and entertainment. Does that kind of makes sense. That’s actually what Tracy Cook: Jenny’s getting out with the holistic is we tend to just think this service, but in fact that service can serve a lot of different outcomes and it’s related to other services Tracy Cook: That help or just make it more confusing Susie Mcintyre: Know that, that helps. I think almost everything we do, does that gets access to reading material helps with Susie Mcintyre: Employment, if you’re looking at a resume book. It helps with education. If you’re researching something and it helps with entertainment. If you’re not reading the latest Susie Mcintyre: Babaji Tracy Cook: And then what things kind of influence those services that we provide Tracy Cook: And whether or not they worked Tracy Cook: This is deep thinking isn’t it

Tracy Cook: Also, very different way of thinking Tracy Cook: So, Tracy Cook: If I could have, like, another 10 minutes I can pull up the next pamphlet with the Montana library network and kind of organize it around the things that each of you added in the comments to kind of give us an organized way of thinking without be okay. Jenny does me grab that time Tracy Cook: Alright, so if you’ll just give me 10 minutes I’ll pull up the next Padma and reorganize this Tracy Cook: And this will be open, by the way. So as you’re thinking, you can add things to it Bruce Newell: I assume these are all preserved Tracy Cook: Yes, they are Bruce Newell: Thank you Tracy Cook: Yeah, I’m slowly Jennifer Birnel: Struck me as looking at this and this. I don’t know where I fit the sense. I’m just going to say it out loud Tracy Cook: Well, that’s fine Jennifer Birnel: I think we think of it as being our library because, of course, we live in a community we pay money through taxes to support our library Jennifer Birnel: But when we go to other communities do we look at the library, the same way. Like if you’re on vacation. Do you go to the library Jennifer Birnel: I think as librarians, we might does the general public, and do they know that they would be welcome in other communities libraries. And I’m wondering how we express that that Jennifer Birnel: All libraries are for everyone, not just our local library Tracy Cook: Yeah, it’s interesting you bring that up, Jennifer, because in the public library standards Task Force meeting on Tuesday as they were talking about the wording and one of them, they Tracy Cook: directed me to use the word everyone because multiple people brought up the fact that their library is used by travelers Tracy Cook: Usually for Internet access but sometimes for just Quiet Tracy Cook: safe place to be Jennifer Birnel: Right, and that’s what I was thinking of like I know when I travel, I always take note of where the library is so if I need a place to hang out for a while, you know, especially a non code at times I can but Jennifer Birnel: It just strikes me as as something that we should also address. I think we need to think of our library all of our libraries being for everyone and how you, how you word that are where that fits in Flick, Joann: The same thread was a big topic of conversation on the arsenal listserv a week or two ago and Flick, Joann: Where when a librarian. I think quite innocently posted. She wondered how Flick, Joann: Other libraries dealt with people who don’t have library cards wanting to use the computer in the library and that launched into a whole discussion of Flick, Joann: You know the library card being some kind of Flick, Joann: Restriction to users and and then the whole discussion about, you know, are, are the computers do the computers belong to only library card holders or to everyone. And it was quite illuminating Bruce Newell: The other thing is that we’ve all been reminded recently that people use libraries in a number of different kinds of ways. I mean, some people Bruce Newell: You know access them remotely from their home or from even remotely from within library and place holds on materials Bruce Newell: Or through partners, you know, are pulling materials or lending materials across county lines rather people like to walk in and browse if we are truly being welcoming to all Montanans we have to think of all the different Bruce Newell: means by which patrons could conceivably use our materials and then figure out which one of those are which ones of those weekend affordably address so Bruce Newell: You know, if I’m, if I’m a public library user from Helena Bruce Newell: Can I electronic do I feel electronically welcome at partly for instance in and vice versa, and so forth Bruce Newell: I think we think about the diversity, but of means by which people use use their libraries. I think it changes are kind of building Bruce Newell: Book Bruce Newell: centric way of looking at things in include other things. In addition to that,

Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): This is Pamela, and maybe this is a pretty simplistic response. I’m sure it is um but everyone’s talking about how to make people feel welcome. What about just, you know, a sign that goes right next to Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): The sign for the library and says all are welcome. And you could do that virtually or with brick and mortar Jennie Stapp: Ribeiro Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): That’s right, a free for all, everyone’s welcome and they can do whatever they want. No Susie Mcintyre: I think this is an interesting discussion and it’s something we’ve struggled with it. Great Falls public library because when we did our strategic plan Susie Mcintyre: We had a lot of comments about how people didn’t feel safe at the library because there were so many Susie Mcintyre: I mean, people use a lot of words that were very non inclusive, but because so many poor people hang out so many homeless people hang out. We had a lot of people say that they didn’t feel welcome, because they felt unsafe and then at the same time, we had other Susie Mcintyre: You know, people say that it was great because we were open for everyone. And so I think, you know, Susie Mcintyre: Having everyone feel welcome, there is really tricky because we live in a nation that that definitely like to other people. And in that part that’s hard to balance Susie Mcintyre: And Susie Mcintyre: Separate from that comment. I just want to make a comment like with the bookmobile and other outreach things that people are doing, you know, that’s a way of Susie Mcintyre: Welcoming the whole community, even if you can’t physically come to the library Bruce Newell: I listened to it on the sagebrush Federation meeting a couple weeks ago and it was interesting that I think all of the people on that call on that zoom session we’re doing some form of home delivery Bruce Newell: So I think actually the list of the there’s longer list than we then I think about how people end up using libraries Bruce Newell: Which is great Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): This is Pamela again. In fact, go back and on what Jody mentioned about some users not being comfortable in the library environment because of other users Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): I think that’s a long term problem and we certainly had a cliff and public library from like 2000 2010. In fact, you had maybe a fourth third of the population that we’re almost there. We’re coming in there Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): They got they decided to even go the way of not using library cards so that everybody could access Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): The computers and whatnot. But it was a problem because he had people not willing to come down from the suburbs to use the library in the city. So Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): I, I don’t think that’s going to go away. In fact, I would guess it’s going to get worse. I think the homeless population is going to get jacked up something serious. So you go forward Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Of course pandemic kind of put everything on hold. Anyway, right now, but I don’t know. It seems like we’re coming to a reckoning point for libraries as far as social justice issues Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): You know, what are you going to do, I know other people were complaining about getting flack for wearing masks. Well, that’s probably the beginning of it Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): So yeah, tough tough from Tracy Cook: I’m almost there

Tracy Cook: And please do let me know if I missed your comment Tracy Cook: All right Jennie Stapp: Thanks for all your organizing and Tracy Cook: Pretty interesting to think about how to do this kind of conversation virtually Tracy Cook: And I will share my screen Tracy Cook: And I will also share this pad. Let Tracy Cook: So what I did was I kind of went through and I hope I grabbed all of the services Tracy Cook: And I put them in this service mentioned in the brainstorming pamphlet Tracy Cook: And what we’re talking about here is thinking about this concept of the Montana library network and Bruce Tracy Cook: And Jenny both kind of gave you a background on it, thinking about what it would do and what it looks like and what its history is Tracy Cook: And so one of the things we need to know from you is based on the outcomes that you put in there. You know what services could a Montana library network provide Tracy Cook: And I guess I should step back, though. And just for a moment and say, does everyone feel kind of clear on what the Montana library network is Tracy Cook: Because it’s an interesting conversation that Jenny and I hadn’t so probably we should start there jonna underwood: Tracy, THIS IS GIANNA, maybe you could just clarify it for me. Just a little bit more jonna underwood: It seems a little foggy to me right now. So maybe just something to bring it in just a little bit for me Tracy Cook: Yeah, absolutely. That’s why I asked because, you know, I think I know I’ve been involved with the Montana library network since about 2001 Tracy Cook: And sometimes when you’ve been involved with something for a long time, you forget that it needs a little bit of defining for others. For me, the Montana library network has kind of like two pieces and Bruce, you can like jump in and correct me if I’m wrong Tracy Cook: So, first there’s the overarching concept, the Montana library network can include any library in Montana of any type that wants to play Tracy Cook: And that Tracy Cook: Concept then full folds into the services, the Montana library network provides in the services that the Montana library network provides are also things that a library can pick and choose which one they want to play in. So for instance, for some libraries Tracy Cook: Like the Historical Society, which kind of has a mandate for providing support for research and enjoyment of Montana’s history, the service they might play in the Montana library network or choose to use his Montana memory project Tracy Cook: And so the Montana library network wallets made up of all the libraries. It’s providing certain services for the libraries that they can then pick and choose to use and those services are related to one another Tracy Cook: And Bruce jump in if you want Bruce Newell: Well, I think that’s really good. You know, when Jenny was talking about this, she was talking about siloed services. And I think that’s because in all of everything we do as librarians, as humans, we think about Bruce Newell: Competency and the tools we use a lot of the things that MLM did in the old days, and continues to do at the state library continues to do Bruce Newell: Have been kind of considered differently for instance collection development and acquisition in interlibrary loan in in partners group and courier service or all these separate tools, but when you look at the way Tracy is suggesting they’re all about getting Bruce Newell: Books either electronic or Bruce Newell: Paper to patrons and and so when you back up and you kind of start at that point. What is you see that that actually instead of five or six different kinds of different activities from

Bruce Newell: A librarians point of view, from the users point of view is just one thing. Am I getting what I want, efficiently and affordably. And when viewed from that end of the binoculars it. I think it forces us to consider Bruce Newell: What needs to be bundled in what can afford to kind of run run run separately as a process Bruce Newell: When with with the old MLM Bruce Newell: You know, the, the Montana memory project was was was handled separately from the shared catalog. They were, they were separate things. But when you think about it, they’re actually from a user’s point of view Bruce Newell: If the users interest in something historical or local, local records like there. There is no difference between that and anything else. The library might do. So I think there’s an opportunity for us to following Tracy’s Bruce Newell: Method here to reconsider things from a patrons point of view and seeing what stuff would profit, both in terms of efficiency for patrons and also efficiency for libraries for for thinking of as one instead of separate silos Jennie Stapp: The only thing I would add that hasn’t been said, is that Jennie Stapp: One of the foundations or funding fundamental aspects of MLM when thinking about the services is that libraries have approach participation with an understanding that Jennie Stapp: It’s about Jennie Stapp: Collaboration working together Jennie Stapp: May not be necessarily about equal services, but to the extent possible. It’s about providing equitable services and so fundamentally it’s about collaboration and how we approach delivering services to our users Victoria: But also bouncing off of what Jenny and Chris have been saying my comment was the one about the cataloging and the records. And I know a lot of libraries have Victoria: Materials that are not catalog correctly or not catalogued at all. And that’s something that we can do cooperatively Victoria: I taught myself how to catalog and so I have been cataloging items for other libraries that they, they don’t have had loggers in their libraries and a lot of these items are self published or, you know, local histories or things of that nature. And so we are Victoria: You know, I’m trying to help my other libraries out that these materials can be shared with each other and can be found for our patrons to use Jennie Stapp: I just refresh example, look for it Yeah Tracy Cook: Thank you, Victoria at that jonna underwood: And just THIS IS GIANNA, just to dovetail on Victoria. There was some discussion. Oh, a few years ago where we talking about jonna underwood: Centralized processing for certain items jonna underwood: When I worked in South Dakota. For example, a lot of our cataloguing went to a separate processing place. It was part of the it was a Minnesota network jonna underwood: And I know we talked about this here a few years ago, but I don’t know if anything really ever came of it or if it kind of got jonna underwood: You know, kind of dispersed with some other things. So is this may be something that would be talked about in including in this fundamental collaborative approach that you’re talking about Jenny Jennie Stapp: Absolutely, yeah. And you know, I think, I think right now we’ve kind of want to put everything on the table Jennie Stapp: Yes or no right or wrong Jennie Stapp: Where might there be opportunities for us to collaborate together Bruce Newell: It with the with the old original MLM, the form of the services that were pursued the means by which we pursued them was arrived at in a process Bruce Newell: Somewhat similar to this, but face to face the series of meetings around the state. And then the number of Bruce Newell: Of shared kind of meetings. It was not something that came from the state library state library sort of prime the pump, but the the actual shape of what MLM was came from people like ignore and Bruce Newell: Betty and john Finn and in in and other other folks from from all around the state who basically gave this idea form

Bruce Newell: And I would hope that if we pursue this continuing with this that we are able to somehow surmount the coven crisis Bruce Newell: And with tools like this and do something similar, because that’s for all the really good ideas came from. They didn’t come from the state library, they came from, from you guys Victoria: I know if the content management committee, we have the list of our members and what their specialties are and then other people can go to us and have our contact information for Victoria: You know, things that we specialize in and can help other librarians with and I think that’d be really helpful for you know co for wants to Victoria: You know, join in this network is to say what our specialties are so we can help each other with those things and maybe start a new services in our library or figure out how to make things better Tracy Cook: may also help to think about this as you think about the services that the Montana library network could provide is what are the things that we can do better together than alone Bruce Newell: What does, what does better Tracy Cook: Yeah, it’s a fuzzy work Bruce Newell: They keep coming back to, you know, Bruce Newell: Every, every month canon has more of a chance of getting services which are sufficient unto he or she and the libraries are finding that they can provide those Bruce Newell: Those services at a kind of a lower net cost per service contact, then they would by working alone Jennie Stapp: And you don’t have to be new things, you know. Some of these might be things that we’re already doing that, we just need to acknowledge the OCLC group services and and access to interlibrary loan There Jennie Stapp: He resources that maybe we think about he resources in new in different ways, or ebooks or different race Honore’s iPhoneg: Or and I think the big thing that everybody has in mind Honore’s iPhoneg: When you’re thinking about things that you would like to do Walker and usually you need to think about what are you willing Honore’s iPhoneg: To give up Honore’s iPhoneg: Because that Honore’s iPhoneg: Causes issues if people Honore’s iPhoneg: Want to work collaboratively with film roles. You need to be able to give that up. So think about that when you’re thinking about other things that that you would like to share Tracy Cook: Captured that nor Tracy Cook: And I do actually want to acknowledge Susie’s common in the chat about entertainment, that is that is something that came up in the session about the ease of libraries and is an interesting point that entertainment is important and that sometimes I think we struggle with how to Tracy Cook: Communicate that value to the people who hold the purse strings, although I do like the way you said it access to art and humor and story is all about how we are human Tracy Cook: And you’re welcome. I have given you the power to play with this pamphlet. So, you are welcome to add things in the different columns Tracy Cook: You can also just direct me to do it to Tracy Cook: Whatever works best for you Susie Mcintyre: I think another issue that that we struggle with that kind of goes along with what North said in in talking about the pros and cons Susie Mcintyre: You know, talking about how is funding equitable because I know we have really struggled with all of our kosher formulas Susie Mcintyre: You know what is fair and what is equitable and Susie Mcintyre: That has just continued to be a struggle. Yeah Tracy Cook: Would people be okay with me, adding under services that the Montana library network could provide a resources because I did kind of hear that the men that earlier conversation with databases and so forth

Tracy Cook: Yeah yeah Bruce Newell: It occurred to me the other day that half the problem was coming up with an equitable fair cost sharing is that you still need to raise enough money to to pay for the stuff that is being purchased or being paid for. So Bruce Newell: When it comes to the cost sharing that that in with the idea that like Tracy mentioned that every library should be able to play Bruce Newell: At some point, there’s just not enough money to pay for all the services we want for everyone in the state without coming up with Bruce Newell: Perhaps additional sources of revenue. And I think that’s. From the Commission’s point of view, that’s one of the things that we need to think about with all of this is Bruce Newell: If, for example, we could do a better job of Bruce Newell: Addressing holds and those kinds of holds in browsing and those kinds of things that the partners are sort of trying to work out to trash out Bruce Newell: If we could add a subsidized least collection of materials of new materials you know that that could likely go some distance to solving some of those problems Bruce Newell: So it’s not just a question of simple equity. It’s a question of obtain the resources to make equity possible equity possible for all libraries and Bruce Newell: So as we define define the services we need to think about Bruce Newell: Revenue, as well as services for I need to think about revenue. I think everyone does Jennie Stapp: Need to think about revenue Jennie Stapp: I also, I also think we shouldn’t let the lack of resources be a barrier to cooperation Jennie Stapp: Already we’re already spending money and a lot of these services and we can Jennie Stapp: probably spend the money we’re spending more efficiently for Jennie Stapp: Highlighting being a great example Bruce Newell: I suspect that if we were to kind of assemble a big long list here, making them all affordable, but still not be that big of an ask Bruce Newell: From wherever we get the money Honore’s iPhoneg: Yeah, well we got through programs that you know we get a better price by one library carry a contract or the state library or carrying a contract Honore’s iPhoneg: Because pro quest and doesn’t have to build each library individually and hunt them down to pay their bill, whoever marries the contract has to do that legwork. So they knock you know quite a bit off because they don’t have to Honore’s iPhoneg: Be that agent, and so it it does help fight Whopper Bruce Newell: Kara came up with a price for a statewide contract with New York Times, you know, Sue and I are paying over $200 a year for for those services for ourselves Bruce Newell: And it would the my sort of my sort of my costs would be four cents if we had this $14,000 to a contract Bruce Newell: And so I think that there are. I think that’s an extreme example, but I think there are all sorts of economies that can be found by by buying together Bruce Newell: What I’m interested in beyond those economies, or the efficiencies so that no matter where I go in Montana Bruce Newell: I get welcomed with open arms and all and all one hand libraries and so that everyone who is currently using or not using their local library feels like that. The library has got stuff that they need in the libraries cool place to get it Susie Mcintyre: I’m not. This is easy. I’m not quite sure how to to verbalize this, but when I think we also have to look at not only equity of the kosher formula. But who is who is doing the work. Like, if you look at Susie Mcintyre: You know who is on the selection team who is on the executive committee who who are who is investing this time to Susie Mcintyre: Make the collaboration work and and yet. Then we also have situations where, you know, a third of the libraries that are part of a cooperative group don’t even come to the meeting their vote Susie Mcintyre: And how do we make that better Jennie Stapp: That’s one of the questions that we want to address with you as well

Roberta Gebhardt: I was trying to figure out how to verbalize that as well. So thank you. Susie for saying that because it is hard sometimes when it is the same people over and over, who are being Roberta Gebhardt: Who are collaborating and who have the time or make the time to participate in things, but sometimes at the detriment to other things within their own organization Bruce Newell: Was first historical note the network Advisory Council was the library board. As I mentioned before, Bruce Newell: And advisory board, but essentially act like the library board making decisions about Bruce Newell: Where we’re going to do things cooperatively where we’re going to ask the state library to pick it up where we’re going to ask for more money to hire somebody to do something, etc Bruce Newell: So this group was the it was historically the group that that did a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of making Bruce Newell: advising the Commission who pretty much followed their advice about how we take care of those kinds of problems. Susie. So if, in my view, if if MLM were to go forward Bruce Newell: We would need the neck or somebody and I, to me it’s the neck to assume a higher level of responsibility for making fiscal decisions and making wise decisions so that no one library felt like that they were having their back broken by being cooperative Tracy Cook: I do want to acknowledge Tracy Cook: Eris comment, she was talking Bruce about Tracy Cook: You mentioning the kind of group purchasing and that we have struggled to scale our bargaining power because not enough libraries can afford to participate in group purchases Tracy Cook: I also want to acknowledge Rebecca’s comment about least collections or central processing could also help with building diverse collections Tracy Cook: And so I I tried to capture Rebecca’s comment as well Jennie Stapp: Diversity Jennie Stapp: Question is important. You know, one of the things that we’ve talked about was mentioned, don’t you don’t see MLM Jennie Stapp: Trading kind of a McDonald’s version of libraries across the state of Montana. In fact, it’s it’s intended to be the exact opposite Jennie Stapp: To the extent that we can leverage resources FIND EFFICIENCIES provide that kind of infrastructure that doesn’t need to be Jennie Stapp: Whether it’s the iOS, where the processes by which we procure a resources or that everybody can have the latest Baldacci economically that does allow libraries to hopefully focus their time and attention on those things that are most Bruce Newell: Absolutely Jennie Stapp: One of the things we may be Jennie Stapp: Maybe need to just put some more thought into with regard to Sherman is Jennie Stapp: Trying to create more scalable procurement Jennie Stapp: I worried that we tend to take an all or nothing approach if if all libraries can participate, great, but if not all libraries can participate, then Jennie Stapp: May not pursue things, I think, one, one thing that we could use help with is looking at Just Jennie Stapp: How to create better scale for those libraries that do want to play like Tracy said this Jennie Stapp: This isn’t about every library having participate in our take advantage of every single service. So I think helping us understand what how how we can most efficiently scale services Jennie Stapp: For those libraries that are participating. It’s also Tracy Cook: So when I look at the list that

Tracy Cook: Each of you kind of created on the other paddling. I see some of these reflected. But I’m wondering what to do about the Internet access one Tracy Cook: Do you see that as Tracy Cook: A service that the Montana library network could provide or could help provide mean, should I add internet access Honore’s iPhoneg: I remember right, then we’re going to try to work on Honore’s iPhoneg: Internet access Right Tracy Cook: Yeah, that’s my memory when it first started. That was a big part of its purpose Tracy Cook: And I saw Jenny nod her head. What about other Members, because I do want this to come from you and be from you Tracy Cook: As a group, Tracy Cook: Do you think that that’s something that should just be done locally Kit Stephenson: This is good. I think definitely it should be included here. I think I feel like the last neck Kit Stephenson: Meeting. We talked about the state library, you know, being really active with the next year’s less legislature and trying to get Kit Stephenson: Widespread internet access. So I do think that is something that we could all work towards together with our local legislators, too. So yeah, that’s it. Yes Tracy Cook: Thanks, kid. And thank you, Susie and Jody Tracy Cook: I will go ahead and add it then Bruce Newell: And I suspect, we’re really talking about a couple things we’re talking about really robust broadband in all of our libraries school public academic special, but we’re also talking about Bruce Newell: To the extent that that the web is this the stats. The whir whir whir whir users get access to our electronic material Bruce Newell: We want them to have access from their home and from from their place of work and Bruce Newell: In while they’re on the highway in and so forth that there’s a there’s both like a kind of an individual in a library oriented access to to broadband. I assume that we’re talking about both things that correct Honore’s iPhoneg: Yes Yes Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): This is Pamela Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): When we’re talking about internet access Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): I know that Jenny’s already done a heap of work in this area and it seems like it is such, it’s so much bigger than libraries, frankly, Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): That, too, but the problems are great in that the money’s not there apparently Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): I mean what, what would that I mean we’re not at that point yet, but I mean, what does this look like because it seems like you just need some heavy duty lobbying and and other things to happen here Jennie Stapp: Again, I think it’s sort of a matter of scale. If I, if we had access to Jennie Stapp: A committee or a subcommittee of the knack who was looking at broadband me Susie Mcintyre: examples of things that I would take to Jennie Stapp: That subcommittee might be thinking about the the mobile hotspot program and asking them to help us think about Susie Mcintyre: what success looks like Jennie Stapp: How we’re measuring success, how Susie Mcintyre: It can continue to improve that kind of Jennie Stapp: Program. If I’m thinking about community broadband access looking at potential ways Jennie Stapp: To highlight something like Jennie Stapp: TV white space Susie Mcintyre: To help a library Jennie Stapp: Promote community access broadband and their community. Having a group of librarians that would help us evaluate whether or not those kinds of opportunities have merit and Jennie Stapp: How we might approach a pilot or thinking about Jennie Stapp: How to scale, some kind of some of those kinds of opportunities, short of any kind of significant legislative investment to address the, the larger means that the state has Jennie Stapp: I think there’s plenty, plenty of broadband work Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): For sure Susie Mcintyre: And for me, I feel like the pandemic just quadruples the importance of this. And, you know, not just for

Susie Mcintyre: For libraries, but I think we’re going to revolutionize how people work and you know we’re already seeing a ton of people wanting to move to Montana for higher quality of life, but only if they are able Susie Mcintyre: To telecommute and make that work. And so I think there’s kind of a new opportunity for us to look at Susie Mcintyre: How broadband impacts economic development Honore’s iPhoneg: With our new governor elect and Honore’s iPhoneg: To look at because Honore’s iPhoneg: It’s hard to create jobs without the internet today Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Going, it’s almost so fundamental that Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): It’s so crucial. It’s so essential um Yeah Jennie Stapp: Sort of differences of opinion on how to approach the question that’s where the challenge Tracy Cook: Jennifer has an excellent question in the chat Tracy Cook: She says memo MLM is meant to be a way for libraries to choose which services to provide. But how does this work with our prayer access statement if my library chooses not to participate in service, then as a patron. Am I denied fair access Bruce Newell: I think the answers is, yes, your patients are not a i’m not sure denied is quite the word I would choose. Even though it’s probably completely accurate Bruce Newell: But but undermine can la public libraries are independent and i think i think that that is I’ve got a strength. We don’t want to mess with Bruce Newell: But I think beyond, beyond that question, which I think is really a great central question Bruce Newell: I assume that there are some services which, instead of being silent should be tied together because when they’re tied when that when they’re kind of coordinated Bruce Newell: For instance, part partner like sharing patrons, as well as as sharing materials, if we’re going to do shared collection development, you know, we get more bang for our buck if we, if we look at that process of getting books Bruce Newell: To patrons what regardless of the tools were using. And we do if we look at them separately. So it may be that there is sort of, if there is an MLM that there may be some Bruce Newell: Central List of sort of of Bruce Newell: Services that we all basically say, We’re not going to sweat Bruce Newell: We’re not can sweat completely independent collection development Bruce Newell: We’re gonna, we’re going to have independent collection development, but we’re also going to have shared collection development and that’s going to result in a set of things as a buy into a larger A LARGER SORT OF A an aggregate of Bruce Newell: Library Services tools we used by the services Jennie Stapp: Etc. And I had a Jennie Stapp: Conversation. I think that pertains to this question Jennie Stapp: As we were developing the agenda, and I’m very interested in other people’s feedback Jennie Stapp: We had we had on my agenda. The word Jennie Stapp: Once a library network members Jennie Stapp: And Jennie Stapp: I asked Tracy to remove the word members because Jennie Stapp: It has very specific meaning in how we’ve approached library services, up until this point we’ve had members of the shared catalog. We have members of Montana library to go and libraries choose to be members or not Jennie Stapp: In my mind I don’t you MLM as something that libraries opt into or opt out of rather it’s a way of being with one another Jennie Stapp: I think, at least with regard to public libraries and and Pamela with regard to academic libraries and trails. I don’t think there’s a library that doesn’t take advantage over or participate in one of these services in some form or fashion Jennie Stapp: And Jennie Stapp: I don’t think it’s an all or nothing for a library to have to play with every single one of these services as Tracy said

Jennie Stapp: You know i i don’t see us implementing a mandate that you to be a member of MLM, you have to Jennie Stapp: Remember the shared cataloging have to participate in Montana library to go, you have to share your collections in this way Jennie Stapp: Rather, to the extent that these services through Jennie Stapp: The outcomes for your patrons and and you have the Jennie Stapp: Resources ability and interest to participate in any or all of them that that’s the kind of behavior we’re trying to encourage so my answer to Jennifer’s question would be, that there is a degree or a Jennie Stapp: Spectrum maybe of fairness Jennie Stapp: And as long as libraries are taking steps to continue to improve their services in order to ensure that sufficiency of access and Jennie Stapp: That’s the kind of behavior. We want to encourage Jennifer Birnel: I don’t know how this plays out from Community community, but a minute just too many miss talking about using their library card Jennifer Birnel: Meeting their library card to be able to use a computer within a library. And how do you approach that and I think this opens that conversation up a little bit wider Jennifer Birnel: To go to other services if I live in shadow. For example, and if my library does an office offer a service, but I know up throat in Fairfield, they do Jennifer Birnel: Am I free to go to that library and utilize that service. And I think that’s probably a question that gets answered differently from Community community. So just another thought in that mix that has been running through my head about how people get access to the resources they need Jennie Stapp: It’s a really great way. How do we encourage that kind of cooperative Jennie Stapp: You’re Tracy Cook: On Jennifer I answered your question. If I’m a patron and I want that service, then yes, I’m not getting the service sufficient onto my needs. However, if I don’t want the service, then it’s okay. The library is actually just using their limited resources in Tracy Cook: The best way that they can Tracy Cook: The key though is that listening to everyone Tracy Cook: To figure out the right mix of services Tracy Cook: Just I see we’re kind of coming up on the actually the past noon. The one thing I did want to ask that I saw listed Tracy Cook: Is programming Tracy Cook: Is that something better done locally or does it have any place in Tracy Cook: Working on it together collaboratively or cooperatively Kit Stephenson: This is kit, my first instinct is to say locally, because we do try to work with our city goals as well as far as meeting different Kit Stephenson: Of their goals and tying that into our programming. Um, so my first instinct is to say keep that local but also obviously sharing out what ideas and make it work Tracy Cook: Okay Susie Mcintyre: And I think there’s a mix because like I think it’s very valuable that we all cooperate on summer reading and we get all the materials and we all do it. And it’s an though. I think there’s kind of some programming that we all might want to share on and some that needs to be hyper local Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): This is Pamela, I agree to mix because I’m Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Using credit needs of the local community, but then at least like in trails. Sometimes, some of the bigger institutions Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Are looking at something or an issue or have expertise in an area that’s looking down the road. Quite a bit more than maybe what some folks in the local situation might be doing and to share that information out is very helpful. I think Tracy Cook: It’s a good point Flick, Joann: And this is Joe and I just want to point out that, you know, we’ve got some other examples, besides summer reading. We’ve done the tours of of exhibit panels around

Flick, Joann: Libraries. Those were libraries could opt in with that and we just completed a lot. There was a lot of programming that happened, even though we went into code with our census effort. This year we were able to share some programs that some libraries put together Belgrade put together Flick, Joann: A trivia Flick, Joann: Program and Missoula had a program on the history of the census through the, through the decades in Montana. So I think there are other examples, but you know, it’s like when there’s a program that is kind of Flick, Joann: More of interest statewide and makes sense to collaborate. That’s just my two cents Jennie Stapp: Received lots of those kinds of examples. Let me stop and think about it. I mean, all the great engagement ideas that Jennie Stapp: Jennifer and Pam push out month and a memory project got the Humanities Council of humanity speaker’s bureau is an example of kind of scalable programming that goes on around the state Jennie Stapp: You know, we have the early literacy programming largely we took what la had and and kind of customized it Montana. Many of you have taken it and and further customize it to your local communities Jennie Stapp: That maybe maker kit. I like program that we’ve promoted for a number of years is another example of scalable programming resources that libraries took and customized and in fact we’re required to find local community partners Jennie Stapp: As part of that pilot programs. So now, I think, again, to the extent that we can find opportunities to collaborate efficiently, even if we then take those resources and turn them into something that’s local there’s still value in that scalable infrastructure Jennie Stapp: We need help. When we think about how to scale that and so that’s why I would say it would be something MLM Bruce Newell: Library has a number of resources that they make available Bruce Newell: That they’re they’re qualified to do uniquely and a State Library doesn’t ask every public library in the state to replicate the good astral database Bruce Newell: I mean, it just all sorts of ways that we collaborate. Now the boxes full of bear skins and Jennie Stapp: One other service Jennie Stapp: And I’m sure it’s a standalone service or because it sort of underlies a lot of these other services, whether it should be Jennie Stapp: uniquely identified or not is an iOS Jennie Stapp: Takes a lot of resources to support a lot of thinking around not only the technology, the policies that go into supporting it Bruce Newell: By having a shirt I unless we have the opportunity to do to work together in ways that would otherwise be incredibly onerous and expensive Tracy Cook: To other Tracy Cook: Members of the Group meeting the wider group. What do you think of Jenny’s request to add that Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): So this is Pamela, I guess we clarify. But what we’re saying there. So we’re talking about an iOS between basically between Montana libraries not looking at you’re Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Not looking at World Cat or OCLC or talking about Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Your Federation’s. Does that, does that kind of what we’re what you’re suggesting Jennie Stapp: I’m hesitating Pamela because Jennie Stapp: You know, maybe, maybe the future is something beyond just Montana libraries Jennie Stapp: So, Jennie Stapp: If that is something for us to consider as a service that that underlies these other services

Jennie Stapp: That Jennie Stapp: Something that would would be worth exploring could be worth exploring Bruce Newell: Ellen, obviously we have now trails, which connects all the public higher education libraries and we have the share catalog which connects about 180 some public and in school in one or two academic libraries, is that correct Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Well, slight, slight correction on that the trails actually includes public and private and community and tribal but um Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Yeah, I’m just trying to wrap my head around Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): The geography it right in the courier. And that whole area and it. The, the movement, certainly in academia is electric. I mean, it’s he it’s ebooks. He everything and actually had a discussion Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): By the kind of steering committee and they they were discouraging us to even be looking at at print or share cataloguing or anything along those lines, but Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): But yeah, I mean, I still support certainly anything that anything that gives us cross institutional type Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Transactions is a good thing Roberta Gebhardt: And I would say that as far as special libraries go you know the shared catalog is a great thing for us because we’re able to Roberta Gebhardt: Provide information out to Montanans and people all over the world through the shared catalog. So I do think that shared iOS is a great thing that the state library does. And I would encourage them to continue Susie Mcintyre: I agree. I think it’s really important and very helpful Jennie Stapp: There’s one more that I have on my list Jennie Stapp: And I know it’s under Jennie Stapp: Services mentioned in pilot and that’s the Montana memory projects. Everything that on our cultural resources Jennie Stapp: Now support services that provide Tracy Cook: People okay with me, adding the Montana memory project Bruce Newell: Absolutely Yes Tracy Cook: All right Tracy Cook: Anything else from the group before we break for lunch, you can always add after lunch, but in case anyone has a comment. They want me to add right now Jennifer Birnel: Tracy from our list. Earlier I see my library to go, does that fall under a resources on our services that the library network providers and their separate or Jennifer Birnel: I didn’t, I didn’t Tracy Cook: Think I would listed under a resources I had put ebooks a video databases homework help Jennifer Birnel: I just wanted to make sure it was okay. I feel like that’s correct. I wanted to make sure that that that was also included in that category Tracy Cook: Yeah, thank you Tracy Cook: All right, I would suggest that maybe now’s a good time to kind of break for lunch and people can kind of think about these questions and then we can come back and continue to work through the questions on our agenda

Jennie Stapp: People have to come back at one o’clock Jennie Stapp: See some Thumbs up for Bruce anybody else. Also if you folks, but I know they’ll be back wireless, but you just put a note on the screen that leave the meeting open but note that we’ve Jennie Stapp: assessed for lunch. Until 1pm Stark, Marlys: Well, do Jennie Stapp: Thank you Bruce Newell: To everyone in a bit Jennie Stapp: being referred as notes about chocolate. Oh, man Jennie Stapp: Next time we get to meet in person, we will have copious amounts of chocolate Bruce Newell: I think Roberta nailed it. I think the meeting like this without chocolate is a disaster and good for you. Roberta for remembering it Bruce Newell: Yes, I can. I think we really need to blame the state librarian, or the, the Chair of the Commission, who do you think Bruce Newell: Yeah Bruce Newell: I really in a discussion like this, miss, not having people cross the table. Absolutely. So Bruce Newell: To transit glory Monday Jennie Stapp: And also wanted to note Jennifer’s question about marketing and Jennifer. I don’t know what it is Jennifer Birnel: Sorry, I was trying to find my mute button. I was thinking of inclusion diversity in equity Gotcha Jennifer Birnel: I think we say that different ways so has Yeah Jennifer Birnel: But I just feel like I don’t know if that’s a service that would be something that we could do. And we’ve done some things like that in the past with ready to read materials and some of the other materials. We’ve used to promote programs, but Jennifer Birnel: I feel like that would be a really good service any it could encourage that, you know, all are welcome that we were talking about in the brainstorm that’s in that list Jennie Stapp: Whether it’s a standalone I think there’s need for both stand alone marketing of my race marketing and promotion, as well as promotion of services that we’re talking about Jennifer Birnel: It makes sense to me Jennie Stapp: And she knows a little bit more on chat Jennie Stapp: Myself a little bit last job was a little bit about the the fall workshop center Flick, Joann: That was in reference to a comment, way up the chat about Flick, Joann: About the the different models that are out there. And I think somebody mentioned in Ohio Flick, Joann: Way that the academic and K 12 and public libraries kind of are formally organized and I just thought it would be worth mentioning that we’ve been working with this presenter, who’s at a Flick, Joann: Library System in New York State and the rural libraries in New York State, not the New York Public Library, but Flick, Joann: Pretty sickly everybody outside of the five big cities, New York State are organized into these rural library systems. So there are some other models out there that are worth looking at Flick, Joann: And she’s going to be there. So if anybody has any questions we asked her like this week. Next week, I should say Jennie Stapp: That’s right. There are there are these kinds of systems Jennie Stapp: In Rhode Island, for example, there’s a statewide system that provides their iOS and other kinds of collaborative services in the state libraries job is looking primarily at the Jennie Stapp: Grants. What’s the word and kind of say some sub granting the LSD funds as their primary role, then helping to support construction and and services, sort of a pastor person, the state libraries Jennie Stapp: Lots of different models Jennie Stapp: And then carry work question about as a staff person. I’m not sure Jennie Stapp: What chat. That’s pertaining expertise Orban, Cara: I was responding to Jennifer’s question about marketing and would that be somebody specialty area or would that just be another thing that

Orban, Cara: All of us do or would somebody from from a library member, be able to offer that that’s that that goes into it and more into a broader question of how is the work of this network distributed. Is it is it Orban, Cara: Is some of that work going to come to these subcommittees or member libraries are they going to step up and do some of this work, or how will that be organized and distributed Jennie Stapp: Christians Jennie Stapp: As we’re coming back together. I wanted to ask if anybody had any thoughts about additional services that you might see muted MLM we just discussion about marketing and other services Bruce Newell: Well, Bruce Newell: I suppose one service, we could think about is a help helping local libraries with fundraising Bruce Newell: Or maybe Bruce Newell: Helping the trust with fundraising or some sort of weird combination there above Bruce Newell: Marks from bitter Bruce Newell: Point Bruce Newell: About the emphasizing the importance of local fundraising in just us as watching Bruce Newell: Continuing melody succeed around the state Bruce Newell: Boy, I wish that kind of success for every library in the state. And if there’s some Bruce Newell: If there’s some help that we could provide centrally that would make sense to do and that we have the resources to do that. That might be a good thing Tracy Cook: And what to others think of Bruce’s proposal Tracy Cook: And Jennifer suggestion to add marketing Susie Mcintyre: Is trying to make this somewhat of a Tracy Cook: Democratic process and only include what the Tracy Cook: Members seem to want Susie Mcintyre: Think help marketing Susie Mcintyre: Would be good. I do think a lot of marketing has to be done locally Susie Mcintyre: In terms of the the fundraising. I Susie Mcintyre: I think it’s really tricky. And I was actually thinking about this with the LSTM money as well. I’m some of us in our with our local funders Susie Mcintyre: You know, they would like to push stuff off to Susie Mcintyre: To they don’t think though that the city should should spend very much money on the library and that we should be supported more by the foundation and so Susie Mcintyre: I’m a little bit like how we do fundraising needs to be done really carefully, or it may impact how funders feel like our local tax dollars should be spent Bruce Newell: And I totally agree, but it would be lovely. If it was useful for there to be some resource for libraries when they get to the point for, for example, being ready to take and consider running a Bruce Newell: Jurisdiction wide continuing Mila v. If they could get some help with doing that if they like I say, if they wanted to help. But yeah, I totally agree. I think fundraising is has individually as most of the things we do in our libraries Tracy Cook: So I saw some consensus on marketing Tracy Cook: And some interest in the fundraising Doralyn Rossmann: There’s a story, Lynn, it seems like that wrong look fundraising marketing and goal

Doralyn Rossmann: Some people Doralyn Rossmann: Maybe it’s situations where they might just have a budget that doesn’t really tell a story. And so I think part of that marketing fundraising could be helping libraries craft those stories like when you when your tax dollars go to this. This helps Doralyn Rossmann: I don’t know, provide literacy efforts for Doralyn Rossmann: This many children and having a story behind that. I think sometimes people may not know how to do that. And so if you had a central Doralyn Rossmann: Service to do that and help people craft those stories Tracy Cook: So Cara. I added grant writing Tracy Cook: And Tracy Cook: Cara had earlier asked about evaluation services and she said that’s what she was getting out with the evaluation comment Tracy Cook: Sir, anything else Tracy Cook: Or and or do you want me to just add evaluation in general Orban, Cara: Well, I think Berlin said it really well that we have Orban, Cara: Where we have data and anecdotal data that can help illustrate the value for libraries to take to their decision makers, if, if we have a way to Orban, Cara: Facilitate that and make it easier Orban, Cara: That would be a good service and sort of like we do the Orban, Cara: Legislative snapshot those sort of packaged like here is something specific to your area or whatever it is they need to customize to take to the decision makers, I think that we have the capability of doing that really well Jennie Stapp: Rolling out of sight of what that could look like. Like you said, Kara, we have Jennie Stapp: expertise and resources to do some of that work. I think pretty well Jennie Stapp: We’re about one in the economist and other opportunities like that, but we do have a growing Jennie Stapp: Resource of analytical information from different Jennie Stapp: The, the public library statistics to the Jennie Stapp: Quantitative data and some of the qualitative data we’re starting to collect. So in in a lot of ways just maximizing use of some of those kinds of resources through more trainings Jennie Stapp: And and perhaps some communities of practice libraries that are interested in using that information practicing developing their stories using those kinds of tools to help better craft and shape those stories Jennie Stapp: Kind of a combination of service and community of practice Bruce Newell: To the extent that we’re we benefit when we’re data driven. There’s a big chunk of data, which Bruce Newell: would fit neatly with a bunch of stuff, the state library already does that would be various census of of local government census population census of of industry, all those all those governmental sources Bruce Newell: Census of agriculture would be interesting if they if we had the capability of Bruce Newell: Presenting those with some of the other information we’re already telling Bruce Newell: Chris Now we’re talking big bucks but Bruce Newell: That’s all really useful information would go right torture suggesting doing

Tracy Cook: I see Joe posted access to tech support and Pamela. So that would be helpful to other Members agree that would be a nice service of MLM Tracy Cook: Anything else, any other services Tracy Cook: So the next question on our agenda is this middle one. What support would MLM need and I’ve obviously been capturing some of what you’ve said Tracy Cook: Is there any thing else that you feel needs to go in this column that would support the work in the left column and all scroll back up on that one, too Tracy Cook: And I’ll also share the link again because might be helpful to look on this, look at this on your own to Jennifer Birnel: So I see physical buildings in that list that was mentioned in the pamphlet Jennifer Birnel: Yeah, and Jennifer Birnel: I think there is something Jennifer Birnel: In that maybe it’s back in that marketing about some of the similar things that off that libraries offer in their physical structures that can be expected by the community and Jennifer Birnel: Because most communities do have a physical space. I think that’s important, I think, Jennifer Birnel: I had a chi comment to me hearing in show that to people even use the library anymore. I thought everything was online now so Jennifer Birnel: That means to me that you know for somebody who’s lived in this community his life. Obviously the library has not been important to him and he didn’t see the value of us doing to support a public space Tracy Cook: I think that’s pretty common. So are you thinking in the Tracy Cook: In the marketing that it should also help with Tracy Cook: Explaining the value of physical Tracy Cook: Server physical space Jennifer Birnel: making people aware of it. You know, there are libraries in nearly every community Jennifer Birnel: I’m always struck by that comment that’s been circulating on social media about how there are more libraries in our McDonald’s. And I think that’s something that people take for granted that you know everywhere has McDonald’s. Right. Well, that’s not true but nearly everywhere has a library Jennifer Birnel: And so I think that’s an interesting thing to think about as we think about how to develop the communication

Jennifer Birnel: And I was reading through the proposals that GN 40 had for the, the things to focus on and his focus on entrepreneurship and Jennifer Birnel: Remote employee working I feels like the library’s set in a position to be a really good space to remind those new if we do build that remote employee base in this state for Jennifer Birnel: Services and a place to commune and and to visit with other homeowner place because it as we know from working from home that gets lonely at times. And sometimes you just need that space to collaborate or to work with other people Jennifer Birnel: I think people think of coffee shops, maybe for that, but they may not think of Jennifer Birnel: Their library as that community space to Tracy Cook: Good point Susie Mcintyre: And Susie Mcintyre: This might be getting a little bit far from the Montana library network and this may just be more networking of librarians, but I feel like, you know, you go to library school and Susie Mcintyre: nobody teaches you how to run a facility. You know what, what do librarians know about putting in a new boiler are doing these different and so having Susie Mcintyre: You know, some knowledge base things where we can turn to one another and say I’m having flooding in my basement. I need a new roof. What’s the best Susie Mcintyre: You know, do we do we know what best practices are for libraries and how do we, and I know we do that kind of informally Susie Mcintyre: But even you know patron behavior. We’re all having trouble with math what’s working for people, what’s not working for people Susie Mcintyre: That kind of Susie Mcintyre: I don’t know if this model of a Montana library network Susie Mcintyre: Would want to do some more formalization of that or if that’s just something that separate Tracy Cook: Hey, you are not alone to see in fact you have more experience than most with facilities management that is a that’s a big request that we see that is a need Tracy Cook: With the group be okay with me putting it under services right now Tracy Cook: I think it would be okay with it, but Kit Stephenson: Yeah, I mean, I was just gonna say I I think Susie even went further than just facilities, but also just some collaboration about tough thing going on right now and Kit Stephenson: in decision making, helping make a more collaborative decision making to, I think, sorry. That didn’t know that makes sense. But I really agree with Susie, it’s more than facilities which is super important to but other things as well Bruce Newell: Let’s see, original MLM we said one of the success measures is interaction increases between librarians Bruce Newell: Not just accorded not just about library stuff about all sorts of stuff, but going to the point about we all work alone both entrepreneurs and Bruce Newell: Then also librarians. Work, work, largely alone if we increase the amount of interaction and the networking part of MLM is doing what it’s designed to do jonna underwood: THIS IS GIANNA, and I thought that kind of popped into my head as this facilities discussion was going on jonna underwood: Is there a way that the MLM could also be a support for libraries jonna underwood: You know, when we talk about libraries have spaces safe spaces jonna underwood: Places for jonna underwood: What we do in the library. You know, a lot of our libraries are not new, our libraries are old, they were built in the 60s, 70s. My libraries built in 1983 which makes it I guess sort of new, but a lot of things that were happening then are not happening now jonna underwood: It’s a different space and so is there a way that the MLM could help libraries troubleshoot figure out ways to make space jonna underwood: Different maybe space isn’t necessarily specifically inside the library, but in other places in our towns in our communities that could be considered library, but aren’t specifically the library does that

jonna underwood: If that makes any sense at all Tracy Cook: Yes, it does Tracy Cook: I’m trying to think how to how to work this Jennie Stapp: Is what keeps coming to my mind is communities of practice Jennie Stapp: And I think maybe some of these news practice might be more long term like fundraising and advocacy like facilities management. Some of them like Ovid, I hope would be short term but maybe more than two more of a disaster planning Jennie Stapp: And I have in my head. How does this dovetail a little bit with analysts interest groups Jennie Stapp: So I think there’s an opportunity for exploration there Flick, Joann: Jenny. I was disaster planning kind of came to mind as as a specific example Flick, Joann: Like it’s really hard for each library to have all of the materials they need in place to deal with flash flood, but we could have Flick, Joann: Resources like that pool together because chances are only one library is going to need that or a couple libraries are going to need that at a time. So we could have the ability to respond quicker and help the library out if we coordinated our planning better Flick, Joann: Kind of leave it up to every library figure that out on their own and everybody pitches in when the time comes, but that that’s just a specific example where it would make a lot of sense to Flick, Joann: You know, have resources staged around Flick, Joann: The state that could easily get help a library recover get right into recovery mode Tracy Cook: Anything else Tracy Cook: So during the lunch. There were some conversations about structures that maybe would need to be in place to support this work. And so I i added like a very short Tracy Cook: Summary of those ideas, but are there other structures mean as you think about a Montana library network Tracy Cook: You’re building it today from the ground up. What structure, would it need to make things happen Susie Mcintyre: Where did you write something Tracy Cook: Under what structures Tracy Cook: We need to be in place Tracy Cook: So Pamela had mentioned libraries connect Ohio Kara had asked about Federation’s. Oh, and Joe mentioned the Tracy Cook: The rural library Flick, Joann: Districts Tracy Cook: Districts guess Flick, Joann: There are other good models out there, especially in education, you know, Michigan has real educational media centers, New York has both sees that does Flick, Joann: Both Flick, Joann: Media stuff that they acquire for their participating school districts and also vocational education services and tech support. So there are other models, besides just the library world. I’m sure there’s plenty out there. If we started looking there as well

Sorry. THIS IS GIANNA, jonna underwood: What was the initial thought as far as jonna underwood: The people involved in the library network, were we thinking about people from all the different libraries were talking about State Library people who, who was going to help with this, or is that where we’re trying to figure out Tracy Cook: I was thinking, all of the above Tracy Cook: I think it’s the only way it will work in Montana Tracy Cook: Certainly was the beauty of kind of the original Montana library network. I mean, that’s Tracy Cook: It was really built on what did librarians and board members, tell us that they saw as need sell in their communities and then State Library staff became involved in making it happen. However, Tracy Cook: Having been a part of some of those initiatives, Gianna. I couldn’t tell you where like our work began and library and works, you know, ended. I mean it was just truly a cooperative effort Tracy Cook: Didn’t really matter who got the credit as long as the work got done, I think Susie Mcintyre: I feel like we would need structures to in place to to make clear both what financial equity, you had to put in. So some sort of cost share formula and then some sort of sweat equity Susie Mcintyre: Formula of, you know, if you’re going to do this, then you have to attend Susie Mcintyre: You know meeting or you have to vote or just some sort of structure where we all Susie Mcintyre: Work together Jennifer Birnel: Would that include maybe re envisioning our current groups like we have the shirt catalog exec committee and we have the maternal every to go committee and we have we have these different groups currently I’m Jennifer Birnel: I’m not sure if we’re in desperate with that with those structures be revised and revisited and how we how we look at those. I guess as part of this Susie Mcintyre: And I’m human. I think that would be good. But I’m also thinking like, you know, Susie Mcintyre: Having requirements that you got to show up and vote on within different membership meetings of Susie Mcintyre: You know, and maybe we need both sorts of things thing Tracy Cook: This are some good questions and thoughts. What do other people think jonna underwood: Well, there was the comment that was raised earlier about jonna underwood: Kind of the same group of people jonna underwood: Always being involved and jonna underwood: You know, the people who are involved or people who want to be involved. They generally want to participate. They want to help jonna underwood: But we don’t want to burn people out either that are always willing to participate. So maybe this goes a little bit to Susie what you’re referring to, to a little bit is, you know, how, how can we get everyone to participate jonna underwood: Somehow at this level jonna underwood: To make it kind of equitable. So we don’t have the same group of people running everything all the time because new ideas are important to and new thoughts jonna underwood: So something to think about their to how can we try to keep jonna underwood: New, how can we get people that maybe aren’t necessarily willing to be engaged or they’re afraid to engage to become engaged jonna underwood: A little bit Susie Mcintyre: Right and and some some conventions have a lot of work. And while I was like the selection committee or other committees, like that Susie Mcintyre: But even I mean I know when I was on the executive committee for the Montana shirt for Montana library to go. I mean, we would have votes on the crusher formula

Susie Mcintyre: And you know 50% of the libraries would would vote on the formula. And then we would continue to have difficulties about how people felt about the formula. And part of that was that just, you know, we didn’t get enough involvement and enough people Susie Mcintyre: making the decision Tracy Cook: I’m going to capture Jennifer’s question. So just ask that in the questions to resolve unless someone wants me to move it and that’s just should we restructure our current committee Tracy Cook: Committee list and how they work Tracy Cook: That’s a great point, Rebecca Tracy Cook: Let me just make sure that I captured doors comment earlier make let me make sure that it also captures what you’re saying about Tracy Cook: Giving an addition to receiving Susie Mcintyre: And I’m just gonna say one more thing. I feel like part of this issue is just the scarcity mindset because staff are trying to do Susie Mcintyre: So much and there’s so much already on their plate and and they don’t feel like they have the skills of the time and and so it will be really important to set this up in a way where Susie Mcintyre: People feel like they can Tracy Cook: That’s a very important point Tracy Cook: Trying to think where it goes. Probably under here Tracy Cook: Other Tracy Cook: Thoughts on this opening it up to any of the columns on the list, just anything you want me to capture about this concept Jennie Stapp: It’s important to recognize that Jennie Stapp: A lot of what is on list of services Jennie Stapp: We are already doing in some way and and in many ways, doing very, very successfully. So I think we need to remind ourselves that we’re not talking about doing anything necessarily brand new Jennie Stapp: So i don’t i don’t know that we need to think about some grand new infrastructure. I think we have the opportunity to just really Jennie Stapp: Think about the work that we’re doing, maybe in slightly different ways, bring together people who have the right subject matter expertise to inform Jennie Stapp: These individual services, what’s working well what could be improved, what the future of these services might look like Jennie Stapp: How these services continue to contribute to the outcomes that we want for our users Jennie Stapp: And then as a network Advisory Council Jennie Stapp: Relying on that council to have a sort of a higher level of oversight Jennie Stapp: Thank you thinking about where we prioritize investment in these individual services, recognizing that we don’t have resources to fund all of these services equitably across every single library Montana right now today

Jennie Stapp: So there’s a lot of thinking and priority prioritization work that would need to happen. I think there’s a there is I hope a lot of untapped potential within the library community Jennie Stapp: Victoria’s example of the content management committee is a great example of untapped resources that I think could really lend their expertise, think about Jennie Stapp: cataloguing and that the Jennie Stapp: In the library to go collection development committee, we have their expertise in helping us think about what collection development might look like Jennie Stapp: And so forth. So Jennie Stapp: We I think and hope that there’s opportunities to recognize what those resources Jennie Stapp: We have that already exist that we can happen to Jennie Stapp: As I said before, I think, I think a lot of it is just thinking about the work that we do Jennie Stapp: Maybe in a slightly different way and deliberate manner Victoria: I like what Jenny said about using what we already have in different manners and Victoria: I don’t want to create redundancy and have people doing, you know, the same thing that’s already we are we have the services going Victoria: Just, I think it would be great if we could you know use what we have and maybe see other ways of those things can be used that they’re not being used for right now that can, you know, fill the spots of what we want to provide Victoria: That makes sense Tracy Cook: Anything else you want me to capture anything, you know, the last question on the agenda under this item is what else do we need to consider to make this effort successful Tracy Cook: Anything we are missing jonna underwood: I wonder if jonna underwood: Just really communicating to the rest of the library community, what this might mean what it could mean jonna underwood: I know for me, it’s, it’s been great to be on this meeting, but it’s a little bit like when you go to a party jonna underwood: And you walk in the middle of a conversation that people have been already having. And so it’s a little bit. I think I’m finding it a little difficult to catch up with kind of the broad idea here of of what we’re looking at jonna underwood: But I think there’s some really great shape here jonna underwood: That looks really, really intriguing jonna underwood: And one just quick question and Bruce may have mentioned this earlier on us talking about the history of the MLM but jonna underwood: Did it become something else did. It did it kind of fall apart drift apart. What happened to the original MLM Bruce Newell: Jenny, I’ll defer to you Jennie Stapp: That’s a really good question. Donna, um, Jennie Stapp: I remember having conversations with staff at the state library at the time about sort of this concept of MLM and what it was, what it might be Jennie Stapp: And the staff at the time resolved that Jennie Stapp: Libraries were already behaving as a network, they are already members of the shared catalog. For example, and at the time I don’t think we really knew what MLM might be beyond those kinds of consortia that were that already existed Jennie Stapp: And so beyond establishing the shared catalog and establishing Montana library to go Jennie Stapp: Maybe it was more of a sense of the work was done and there wasn’t necessarily a need for it anymore Jennie Stapp: I think what I have certainly come to believe is that Jennie Stapp: And I lead

Jennie Stapp: can encompass a lot more. It can be Jennie Stapp: Not just a not just a thing. I don’t want to Jennie Stapp: Worry that we think about Jennie Stapp: MLM as Jennie Stapp: This organization that needs to be created that needs to have staff that needs to have funding that needs to have infrastructure Jennie Stapp: In my mind, it’s more of just a way of thinking about how we collaborate together how we maximize our resources, how we understand how our services are integrated Jennie Stapp: And I don’t, I don’t think we were thinking about MLM in that way. At the time, I think we were thinking about it more as these consortia that did the services and and that the shared catalog and Montel I ready to go, largely filled those needs Bruce Newell: You know I I retired and so it was no longer my baby. But I always thought that Bruce Newell: Email in his, his work was just begun Bruce Newell: In as kind of the thing, whatever that thing was, it was a terrific way of communicating to Montanans Bruce Newell: To our communities that that our local their local library was part of the statewide effort that gave them so much more than they’d be able to get just just locally. That’s for big and small communities. And so I saw it as sort of a Bruce Newell: You may have heard me say like a label on your computer that says Intel in the box. If you’ve got if your library displays a logo for MLM that says it’s not just the Bruce Newell: Lewis and Clark library. It’s part of this larger statewide effort that offers so much more such is Lewis and Clark has been such a great steward of its resources in as a user, you are so lucky because you had access to Bruce Newell: The best public library service available in the state of Montana and that would be true at Lewis and Clark and in the Shelby, for instance Bruce Newell: Think we use like marketing Jennifer Birnel: I think we use the membership word a lot to previously. And I think in some ways that limited us Jennifer Birnel: To our end, it became a disadvantage Jennifer Birnel: In the grander scheme to have the word membership involved in it because as Jenny pointed out earlier that Jennifer Birnel: It’s an exclusivity thing. If you are a member or not Jennie Stapp: I’m going to say some things Jennie Stapp: Like saying these please please bear with me. And please push back against me if you disagree with me Jennie Stapp: staff know that I have a way of saying things that sort of stops the conversation. And that’s not my intent at all. So, Jennie Stapp: Bear with me Jennie Stapp: And I read this is going to be a little bit of a brain dump Jennie Stapp: As I said before it in a lot of ways, I think this is as much a way of thinking about the work that we do as trying to somehow change the work that we do Jennie Stapp: So if I was going to give Jennie Stapp: If I was going to create the kind of structure that I think would be most helpful for the state library to think about MLM, at least from my perspective, it would be Jennie Stapp: You’d be a smaller network Advisory Council Jennie Stapp: One that was a little bit more nimble and flexible and empowered to make hard decisions Jennie Stapp: But the network advisory council would be advised by Jennie Stapp: A group of Jennie Stapp: Videos or subcommittees made up of subject matter experts for the different kinds of services that we’re talking about. So, for Jennie Stapp: For lack of a better example the content management committee that is a committee of the shared catalog right now becomes a subcommittee or, you know, an advisory committee to the network Advisory Council on all matters of cataloguing not just matters of cataloging for the shirt Jennie Stapp: And that Jennie Stapp: The Montana library to go should encompass beyond a contract with overdrive

Jennie Stapp: All other opportunities to think about eBooks and other kinds of E content and he responds Jennie Stapp: And that when I have questions or staff have questions about how we address concerns about ebooks, or how we might better Jennie Stapp: Scale providing access to the resources. It’s that that committee that’s tasked with helping us through those kinds of questions and serving on RFP committees and doing that kind of work that’s involved there Jennie Stapp: But that we don’t necessarily have a Jennie Stapp: Separate kosher formula for Montana library to go that the knack does the hard work of helping us figure out one kosher formula to rule them all That’s my dream Jennie Stapp: And that libraries contribute. Whatever it is that crusher formula says, and they can partake of whatever services within MLM that they would choose to participate in Jennie Stapp: That that is very, very nebulous, in my mind, but but I think something that a group of the network advisory council really could undertake Jennie Stapp: I hope in that way. That would make the best use of people’s time perhaps we would get less frustrated by the lack of participation if where we’re asking them to participate are almost things where they really do have something meaningful for you And Jennie Stapp: Where decisions have to be made about a kosher formula for example or something like that. It’s being made at that Jennie Stapp: Level of the network advisory council advising the State Library and the state library mission Jennie Stapp: And and and I recognize that in some ways that might might be less democratic, but hopefully by Jennie Stapp: seeking advice from these different groups, the network Advisory Council feels like they can make Jennie Stapp: Powerful meaningful informed decisions and recommendations to the library mission Bruce Newell: Doug just trying to say that agrees with my vision jonna underwood: Well, I have to say that was extremely helpful to me. I appreciate that jonna underwood: One thing that popped into my head was if the MLM could create like an MLM University jonna underwood: And maybe have options for people who jonna underwood: For example, when I joined Montana library to go. I knew nothing about it. Absolutely nothing. They needed a body. I was asked to join by somebody. I couldn’t say no. So I did it. And it you know it’s been it’s been a learning process a lot of learning jonna underwood: So what would be great is maybe to have whatever the pockets of expertise is whether it’s a cataloguing expertise or a content expertise jonna underwood: Something where if somebody kind of interested. They can at least go in and learn about it, understand it and then they would feel much more confident about jonna underwood: Being willing to raise their hand and say, hey, I’ll help out with that because at least I know something about what that team or that group of people is is doing and advising at that point and that may be part of the reason why we don’t jonna underwood: Get a lot of people to just raise their hands and pension. They either don’t know they figure us too much time for me to learn how to do this jonna underwood: I’m I’m scared scared because I don’t know anything about it. And I’m joining a committee where everybody does know about it. So something like that might be something to consider, too Jennie Stapp: Yeah, chat a mentor system. I think a great suggestion Jennie Stapp: And thought a lot about Jennie Stapp: thing I wanted to say about these services is Jennie Stapp: There certainly isn’t a one size fits all approach to all of these services, you know, their, their unique services Jennie Stapp: By their very nature. And so, you know, I would hope that those people who have the most expertise in these areas might make recommendations that

Jennie Stapp: Best serve Jennie Stapp: Identifying success measures for those services. And then finally finding the best the best structures to support those services thinking, for example, Joe’s Jennie Stapp: Comments about Disaster Planning and thinking about how we can scale disaster planning and Cara’s comments about the role of the Federation, for example, maybe there’s a place for us to have disaster resources in each Federation Jennie Stapp: Or, you know, just something like that Jennie Stapp: Not maybe Jennie Stapp: We don’t scale everything exactly statewide but Jennie Stapp: Regionally, where appropriate, or multi state where appropriate Jennie Stapp: Get just sort of another stream of conscious thought there Bruce Newell: One of the Tracy. One of the difficulties of this format a meeting is difficult Bruce Newell: To look at people and see take their temperature to see how people are feeling about this. I can’t tell if people are cringing across the state of Montana or everyone is jumping up and down and enthusiasm, could you help us maybe by coming up with some clever way of taking folks temperature Tracy Cook: Yeah, that’s a really good question. Bruce have struggled Tracy Cook: Throughout the speeding, with that being sure if the silence is an indication of deep thinking or disagreeing or distraction or or what Tracy Cook: I could, I think I can do this. Like I could create a poll asking people what Tracy Cook: They think of Jenny suggestion. Just kind of thumbs up or thumbs down Tracy Cook: Or Flick, Joann: You could do breakout rooms. Now to give people every chance to kind of more That’s a good suggestion. Joe Tracy Cook: Yeah, why don’t we do that. So it’s just to kind of verify Bruce what you’re interested in knowing is what do people think of your vision and Jenny’s vision kind of is that it or Bruce Newell: I would I would defer to Jenny. But, you know, or say our vision is this a vision worth pursuing. Because this is going to be a topic of conversation at the Bruce Newell: December commission meeting and it would be nice Bruce Newell: To be able to know whether or not Bruce Newell: Folks like the idea in, you know, we should pursue this or whether this is a pretty interesting idea in a day not totally wasted, but oh my god Tracy Cook: So what you’re looking forward to 22 priests summarize it well Jennie Stapp: I think so, yeah Tracy Cook: OK, so now the group knows, so I will break you up into small groups of three or four people. And so you can kind of discuss. Is this a vision worth pursuing or as Bruce said, oh my god. Maybe it’s interesting, but not today Jennie Stapp: I think within each group, we need a spokesperson Tracy Cook: Yes Tracy Cook: Yep. So you have to pick your spokesperson to Bruce Newell: It’s probably appropriate Tracy for me just to sit out Tracy Cook: Yeah you engineer. Just going to be in your own little group Flick, Joann: This is very helpful because Tracy was just saying in preparation for the fall workshop spiritual fall workshops last week that she needed more practice breakout rooms Jennie Stapp: panicky when I have to do on Flick, Joann: on the job training Flick, Joann: Oh, well, this, this, with this group if we if we screw it up it’ll be okay Stark, Marlys: You can set your breakout rooms up in advance. You know, before your meeting starts for something like fall workshop, you can say when and who and all of that sort of stuff Flick, Joann: I think that they have to register through the zoom in order to do that, though

Flick, Joann: And we actually have them register through Aspen so Flick, Joann: I’ll get invited to a room just have to be a little patient Stark, Marlys: Room. Can we have the coffee room please Flick, Joann: I thought you wanted to chocolate room. I mean, what’s Stark, Marlys: No, let’s be honest. For me, it would be the Pepsi room Flick, Joann: Yes Stark, Marlys: That’s me Flick, Joann: MSL staff in one room Flick, Joann: She’s gonna spread us out. We’ll find out Flick, Joann: It’s always fun to see you end up with when Pam (MSL), (she/her): You go to a room Flick, Joann: Okay, by Jennie Stapp: The way Tracy Cook: So Kenny Bruce wireless we’re all in the same room Bruce Newell: Didn’t get any I didn’t get big pushback from the Commission, when I sort of asked them to all have a live camera. I don’t know if that would that would be useful Tracy Cook: You know, it depends on people set up Tracy Cook: For instance, with my setup. I can’t do all my notes and the palette very easily with the way my webcam works Tracy Cook: And some of our librarians do have webcams but others do not Tracy Cook: Yeah, it’s this is a very challenging conversation to have this way Tracy Cook: I kind of going, How can I get them to Tracy Cook: How do we get to where we need to go, you know, wherever that is. And maybe that’s the hard part is Tracy Cook: You know, we’re specifically trying not to create aware Tracy Cook: You know with all the details for trying to get them to help us build the where Tracy Cook: And that’s a very big question to ask Bruce Newell: Them build the web Tracy Cook: Well, like Tracy Cook: I guess to me. Maybe that’s the problem is, I’m not. I didn’t understand kind of what you need to doubt of the facilitation Tracy Cook: To me this Montana library network as a way of thinking. It’s also I’ve looked at it as a roadmap to like where we’re trying to move Montana libraries and we’re asking this group to help us define Tracy Cook: That that roadmap, so to speak Bruce Newell: It’s, it’s, it was an amazingly hard thing to do. The first time on the phone. We could meet face to face and drink coffee and beer Bruce Newell: Doing it over. Zoom is daunting Tracy Cook: That’s Bruce Newell: Better than me Bruce Newell: To Bruce Newell: Jenny’s point Bruce Newell: Already doing a bunch of this is just a matter of maybe defining the were little bit more clearly saying Bruce Newell: What we didn’t, we didn’t have when it sort of fizzled out as it as a thing Bruce Newell: We didn’t hit. We didn’t have the resolution we didn’t, we didn’t have the so that and I’ve taken to a sort of a more or less irreducible Bruce Newell: Foundation Bruce Newell: Now we have that. And that, to me, seems key that seems to me to be everything in terms of Bruce Newell: Not knowing what makes sense. And how can you tell it makes sense Jennie Stapp: I was looking at the Jennie Stapp: Document. You just sent me and remembering the conversation I had with Bob Cooper about, you know, he’s specifically asking me, do you think this idea of MLM has legs, where, where does it go. And I remember, I remember the discussion being about who MLM was not necessarily what it was Jennie Stapp: And I think that’s why I’m so reticent to think about MLM as a member organization, for example, or something new and different. I really do believe it’s it’s more a matter of just a way of thinking about how we approach our services

Bruce Newell: So I think that’s true for us, but it’s also, it’s also that Bruce Newell: FDIC sticker on the, on the, on the On the front door Bruce Newell: Or savings loan. It gives it’s a message to our consumers that if you deposit money with us and we fold your money is safe Bruce Newell: That that message is different for libraries, obviously. But it’s this it and Bruce Newell: And it’s also a tool for us Bruce Newell: The Commission Bruce Newell: To have something real to work with to pursue that goal of sufficient, you know, sufficient library service for every everyone in Montana and as opposed to just sort of a high faluting Bruce Newell: laudable goal, but without Bruce Newell: Not, not concrete nebulous Bruce Newell: I mean, it’s one thing. It’s one thing to Bruce Newell: Everyone’s crying mercy, but they don’t know the meaning of the word right you know it’s it’s one of those kinds of things. This gives meanings to the word Bruce Newell: It’s been very Tracy Cook: Well, and I also think that part of the reason Montana library network kind of went away is Tracy Cook: Where we were at and building the services offered through Montana library network they kind of required full on focus to make them succeed Tracy Cook: And that’s when they became silos and then Montana library network kind of went away with the concept of it and I Tracy Cook: Think you know the reason the three of you hit enter, multiple trips across Montana, we’re sort of coming to this place, I think, is that we recognize the limitations of silos Tracy Cook: And how they can hold you back. And how we’re not able to give people meaningful work and create meaningful opportunities for them. And I think maybe more importantly, are we missing some change in library services, we should be making because the world is changing Bruce Newell: Yeah, I totally agree. You know, I thought, you know, if I had not retired, but there’s still be an MLM I mean obviously I’ve had that thought and know maybe but but I’m not sure. Then Bruce Newell: That I had as clear picture as I do now, thanks to you guys as much as anything for where we’re going. I really think Bruce Newell: So that so that so that that Tracy that you’ve brought up for me was the that’s what pushed me off the end of the dock and got me really thinking about outcomes Bruce Newell: In wrestling with. Why in the hell are we doing all this stuff. That’s what, that’s why. To me that resolution so important that that’s that’s the white part Bruce Newell: And that’s why the freedmen thing was important to me as a decent language to a corner. What we say we want to do it made it kind of real and then Bruce Newell: Shocked the hell out of me that libraries were mentioned in that discussion, which is it because it was clearly our wheelhouse as clearly our business Tracy Cook: And I actually just agreed with you when you say he must surely know that about libraries, I Tracy Cook: I am still struck by the session I took that just was like, Look, people have these traditional stereotypes about libraries and they’re stuck and they don’t see us any other way. And that’s one of the barriers we have to overcome Bruce Newell: And that certainly could be Jennie Stapp: That certainly could be Yeah Bruce Newell: I just Bruce Newell: I have such respect for him as a thinker. I just can’t imagine anyone who’s that smart, not knowing the libraries are the center of the universe Bruce Newell: I realized that that may not be a true thing Tracy Cook: I don’t want to cut people’s conversation short. So there’s actually an MSL staff member and every break room so they can report back to me and let me know when seems like a good time to bring people back Tracy Cook: One thing that occurs to me is Tracy Cook: You know we did that wonderful training with Samantha Becker about creating public value where we talked about outcomes and the so that that’s actually where that comes from. Bruce Tracy Cook: Felt like maybe we need that training again almost Jennie Stapp: I was a little bit struck earlier

Tracy Cook: Yeah, in that Tracy Cook: It’s, it’s very hard to think that way. I mean it’s, you know, we’ve been working on it for what, four years now Jennie Stapp: Yeah, you know, Jennie Stapp: I hope, regardless of the outcomes of this conversation. Hope we get to a point where we’re thinking more deliberately about the outcomes of these services that we’re talking about giving ourselves realistic success measures Jennie Stapp: To help us think about current and future services models and I think Jennie Stapp: Doing that kind of training Jennie Stapp: Would be very helpful to help us start to define those six months success measures more succinctly and have them be vulnerable to be. That’s how we use our, our professional development money Jennie Stapp: Who’s taken some spaces, somebody else’s Jennie Stapp: Maybe some ripple Bruce Newell: darlin ass and chat whether there was a cost to start Himalayan I should probably look at the whole message Bruce Newell: It was, you know, it was my salary Bruce Newell: And some some cost of, you know, travel, and those kinds of things Bruce Newell: What it, what it did do was change the way that we spent money and it changed the way that the state library allocated staff. So there were quite a few changes Bruce Newell: My salary sort of disappeared into almost a noise level after we really get ramped up with the cost of running a shared catalog, for instance Doralyn Rossmann: Yeah, I asked that partly because I see in the trails consortium Doralyn Rossmann: I think that academic libraries for a long time have Doralyn Rossmann: Needed in Montana to button bond together. Just because we’ve got so many academic institutions Doralyn Rossmann: That to not pull resources is Doralyn Rossmann: Not, not very shrewd Doralyn Rossmann: But Doralyn Rossmann: You know the funding for that has largely come from Montana State University Bozeman and and people are in that consortium, but they aren’t Doralyn Rossmann: They aren’t paying enough to pay for Pamela and Appa panel a salary and so we you know we continue to pay for that out of Bozeman, and I guess that’s one of the things that I Doralyn Rossmann: Think that the Montana library network really has the benefit is that you’ve got the state library that can coordinate this and potentially allocate personnel towards it. I just think that that’s that’s one of the biggest benefits you have Doralyn Rossmann: Of libraries being so willing to work with you. And so I just, I think that that’s that’s a real opportunity to look at how you coordinate things across the state, because you’ve got a central place where the staffing could come from Tracy Cook: Yeah, whatever effort we do takes people Doralyn Rossmann: Now, I mean, that’s the, I mean, I think that’s the biggest thing with trails that frustrates me is because Doralyn Rossmann: It’s so needed, but they, you know, libraries, haven’t gotten additional resources to help make the trails consortium happen and I so I’m glad that canning is, you know, able to continue to make it move along. But ideally know every institution would place value in that in the form of money Jennie Stapp: Yeah, you know, we’re fortunate we have Jennie Stapp: You know Kara’s position supports a lot of the the resources acquisition and coordinating no sales secret services contract and Jennie Stapp: Per year where we can use two or three more of her and then within the shared catalog. We’ve got all the system administrators Jennie Stapp: can log in those positions were largely LSTM funded to begin with. But then libraries in their membership process to the shared catalog agreed to begin to find additional staff positions Jennie Stapp: So we’ve been able to grow This year had Bruce Newell: Initially the shirt catalog is run by Sarah McHugh Bruce Newell: Who was temporarily on loans MLM for a year. She was a catalog and Chris that changed in by Mike price, who was doing other stuff web stuff and database stuff as well Bruce Newell: So, Bruce Newell: We kind of just Bruce Newell: Sort of insinuated ourselves into the Bruce Newell: budget allocation at the state library

Bruce Newell: You know, the one thing I remember always needing to talk about with both my colleagues at the State Library and the Commission and the knack actually but also with library boards and librarians around the state was Bruce Newell: separating out the two concepts of cost and value. So I always like to start at the value part first, and then decide what valuable things where we actually going to spend money on second because to me, that seems that seems to me to be the rational way to approach it, not just Bruce Newell: Spend money we’re worried about the cost stuff and not ever really examine the value and i think i think that in this might be an opportunity if if people are are Bruce Newell: Willing to pursue this to really deliberately look at the cost cost versus value proposition and in decide what is valuable. That’s amenable to approaching on, you know, sort of a Bruce Newell: At scale as a state and and and then figure out where that money comes from in in darlin I think money comes from a new source of funds because I think that we’re likely to Bruce Newell: obligate ourselves from more Bruce Newell: Than Bruce Newell: We currently have resources coming into the state library or into libraries that may not be true Bruce Newell: But that’s my anticipation is that we’re going to have to look at Bruce Newell: Fresh sources of money to provide these identified valuable services for content to everyone Yeah Bruce Newell: Darling read here when when we came up with the, the cost. The cost algorithm for the shirt catalog Doralyn Rossmann: I think so. I mean, I must. Well, not I wasn’t on the neck. But I was in Montana Bruce Newell: Yeah, it was, it was this this spreadsheet from hell Bruce Newell: Where the basically kind of started with a bunch of stuff that that it made sense from $1 point of view it. Let the big libraries play for less money and they were currently spending in in largely subsidized small libraries Bruce Newell: And so that was that. And then we’ve kind of carried that’s, I mean, that’s really the logic of the cautionary or was the logic of cautionary model when we move that forward Bruce Newell: But when we think about about providing this to all libraries in the state who want who wanted. You know, it strikes me that there’s a need to Bruce Newell: they’ll, they’ll be a need to take an end pay most of the costs from a state point of view or a federal point of view for the for the smallest of libraries night. I’m not sure how you decide who that is. Jenny and I have Bruce Newell: Talked about using Bruce Newell: School Lunch funding as one possible major, but I think there may be other majors as well you know rate Bruce Newell: Their needs unless we take and we burden the big libraries with the cost of doing this or stop doing something that we’re currently doing that. I presume is successful and in value. We’re going to need fresh, fresh resources so Bruce Newell: But that’s why we have a State Library commission and that’s why we have such a great state librarian who is continues to to to talk to Bruce Newell: The executive in the legislative branches of Montana government in such a way that they are starting to get it in and see the value in be willing to step up with the cost Bruce Newell: Yeah, we’ll see. We’ll see. Fingers crossed Jennie Stapp: This idea to snag in the back of my mind Jennie Stapp: About Jennie Stapp: A STATEWIDE mills like University has Jennie Stapp: Statewide Mills for libraries or maybe it’s libraries, museums and cultural institutions, I don’t know, but I’m really struck by the number of communities that have voted to support their libraries, despite their local governments arguing otherwise Bruce Newell: Yes Tracy Cook: You know, I am in Bruce Newell: For years, Jennie Stapp: You know, I think Jennie Stapp: About that in a very real way Jennie Stapp: You know, the state library is going to be able to do certain things, but Jennie Stapp: It’s as long as we’re dealing with a legislature legislature. Sure, or governor’s office. That is right, isn’t to raise taxes or red, red isn’t to significantly increase funding for services. That’s going to be a barrier, you know, Jennie Stapp: We’re, we’re limited to two ways of thinking, let’s say, two ways of thinking where Jennie Stapp: The max, they’re going to increase funding for any one agency is 3% in our IT COSTS increased by 3% and so that’s just it. You know, we don’t have any kind of ability to have

Bruce Newell: To use a political examples if we build our base bring in new users and if if our users identify an MLM in their library with, you know, things that really are convenient to them that really make their lives better, to make their lives easier. I think that there is a real chance of of Bruce Newell: Defining that that sort of that sort of Tea Party logic with the logic that takes some passes continuing Willoughby’s every time they get put up Bruce Newell: But, but it’s but Jennie Stapp: I just wonder if we’d be more successful taking that question to the voters directly rather than through the legislative process Bruce Newell: Right, right. That’s what I’m saying. So if the voters are used to seeing that you know FDIC on the window of their library Bruce Newell: And associating that with with things that are valuable to them in when they’re told that it’s going to cost them, you know, a buck 50 to get this thing, then I think we would have a pretty good chance of a direct, direct asked to the voters Bruce Newell: To build this thing we’d have to do it in such a way that we didn’t threaten libraries in that we we did nothing but promote Bruce Newell: Better local library service more responsive local library service Bruce Newell: So, Jennie Stapp: I think that that that is one of the rubs right there Bruce Newell: But I think that that’s possible. I mean, Bruce Newell: I think in some ways the crisis if it is a crisis that we’re having with the some of the aspects of the shared catalog or signs that we’ve kind of we’ve we’ve Bruce Newell: We’ve left childhood and we’re entering our teen years and Bruce Newell: So now we know we’ve got this lovely working catalog that saving all this time and doing all these good things. Okay. Now, how are we going to really capitalize on this that makes particularly sense to our to our, our users. I think that’s the opportunity Or a need Bruce Newell: Or argument, I would make Tracy Cook: I think a few of our groups are still meeting Bruce Newell: See Nancy’s putting on a mask. Should I put on my mask to Nancy Schmidt: The circ desk so Bruce Newell: There you go. Great mask great man Flick, Joann: Just have the cutest mask and the whole world Bruce Newell: This is the green mask Nancy Schmidt: Let’s keep it fun, right Bruce Newell: Yes, absolutely Bruce Newell: Well Jenny and Tracy, I’ll continue to defer to you folks I will know that will be joining a larger group, I will step back of get off my soapbox Bruce Newell: I know that I’m preaching to the converted so Jennie Stapp: In Bruce Newell: In in MS flick also has A letter Flick, Joann: This is my Raven claw house masks Jennie Stapp: Nice. So Bruce Newell: She could mind me asking what I’m asking. Up here, let me go grab it Jennie Stapp: Had to wear a mask are going to have the and a half Jennie Stapp: Dream jury duty. That was a lot of math wearing your first Jennie Stapp: Having to wear Flick, Joann: My husband’s a paramedic keywords one for 12 hour shifts, Yeah Flick, Joann: You. Oftentimes, too, because depending on the situation, they double up Jennie Stapp: Oh, sure So, Jennie Stapp: drink a beer it Tracy Cook: Sounds good Flick, Joann: Well at least have some good conversation going on, Tracy Good Tracy Cook: Good Stark, Marlys: Apparently, Bruce is a bank robber Flick, Joann: Oh my gosh Tracy Cook: Or like Easter Island Flick, Joann: Now it looks Flick, Joann: It looks smart like Mesopotamian to me Bruce Newell: So what it does is it comes from Nigeria in the same sort of a derisive caricature of French or English traders that made their lives miserable Ah, Flick, Joann: It’s your call a nest. Your imperialist mask Bruce Newell: That’s exactly right. God help us all Tracy Cook: And we’ll be right back as well Amy Marchwick: As just gonna save she’s leaving. But I was gonna say thanks to Tracy for sending that check because some of us didn’t know we could leave the room Flick, Joann: And we, we should use this this little functionality and zoom is one of my favorite things actually the breakout rooms

Amy Marchwick: It’s, it’s awesome. Clearly, we need to play with it more to get used to things though Yeah Flick, Joann: Tracy did great Flick, Joann: She even texted me on my home phone say and come back whenever Flick, Joann: You’re showing up a few masks for Pam (MSL), (she/her): I just started some holiday math. I’m very excited Flick, Joann: I’ve got a couple of those two Pam (MSL), (she/her): I got Halloween that’s over. So now I have I’m getting winter and holiday Pam (MSL), (she/her): It’s gonna be around for a while. I’m going to just embrace this cool Persinger Amy Marchwick: Eight bling it out to a little bit Bruce Newell: And went skiing. A couple Saturdays ago the local area Bruce Newell: Opened up the chairlift Bruce Newell: For just one run and you were required to wear a mask Bruce Newell: And everyone who was up there was wearing a mask and being really great about it. It was it was cool to see. Speaking of cooperative behavior Flick, Joann: Yeah, I always just feel Flick, Joann: When I’m around in a space and everybody’s wearing a mask. I feel like they’re aware of the situation and I feel more confident about being in that space. So Flick, Joann: I don’t Flick, Joann: You know, like, I’m not going to worry about it feels to me it feels to me like those people Flick, Joann: Probably didn’t wake up this morning Flick, Joann: Coughing and sneezing Flick, Joann: And we’re still came out to the to the store, you know that they are, but that might be too much of an assumption but Flick, Joann: These are interesting times we live in Flick, Joann: You know, here on the reservation Flick, Joann: Up the black, the black feet incident command is delivering Turkey and the fixings to every household Flick, Joann: Here so that people don’t have to go out shopping and they’ll have a place where you can pick them up. That’ll be socially distance or you can call in, they will deliver a box to your door. They’re using Flick, Joann: The fire cash volunteers to do stuff like that kind of cool Flick, Joann: really encouraging people to just stay home for Thanksgiving and making sure everybody has a turkey Bruce Newell: That’s great Bruce Newell: Good neighbors Flick, Joann: Yeah, they are Susie Mcintyre: Close is, is there any, are there any other libraries that are going to go back to just virtual and pick up Susie Mcintyre: Missoula and Melissa and Clark and filling Jennie Stapp: Now Bozeman Pam (MSL), (she/her): Goes when Victoria: We just closed, just to curb side because our county is kind of going crazy right now Victoria: I’ve been in quarantine for two weeks and pretty much. I’ll do anything, so I don’t have to do it again Flick, Joann: Well, again, I could tell you appear on the reservation. We had a huge surge after Labor Day and and they just shut everything down. I mean, and it’s, we’re still now are our complete Flick, Joann: Basically shelter in place order is extended through November 22 so it’s been more than two. And we’ll be more than two months but Flick, Joann: Having said that, if you look at our numbers, they are way down. I mean, we’re, we’re getting lots of zero in one days now where before we were our days were 910 1220 new cases. So, and I think it works Tracy Cook: So I told the last breakout room that they add one more minute. And I’m going to close all the rooms. I’m sure they’re solving all the world’s problems Tracy Cook: Exactly. Okay, thank everyone Pam (MSL), (she/her): For so they will have all the problems filed and we won’t have to do it Tracy Cook: I’m good with her Flick, Joann: So Tracy, can you see when they’re when they come back on your screen Tracy Cook: So I saw you show up and that made me open up my breakout rooms and then I could see that people had left Tracy Cook: Okay, their names go grayed out Tracy Cook: That is pretty serendipitous that I got to practice that before next week

Tracy Cook: All right, I think everyone is back and everybody has a spokesperson so Tracy Cook: Who wants to go first Cody Allen: I’ll go first Tracy Cook: Thank you, Cody Cody Allen: Yeah, so I was with Cody Allen: Jody and Amy Cody Allen: I mean, generally we are for the ideas Cody Allen: I mean we just talked about on the one hand, Cody Allen: If, if not now, when it’s been such a crazy time, and people are used to not having plans working out and just Cody Allen: Things that we’re carrying general. So if we’re going to start looking at changing some things and making you know at these kinds of moves. It’s a fine time to start putting those pieces in place Cody Allen: We also talked a little bit about Cody Allen: You know that the ability to get things done in these kind of smaller groups as opposed like the higher level groups and Task Force might be Cody Allen: Easier, as opposed to having the same people in the same task forces and councils and stuff across the state Cody Allen: We can potentially you know have smaller, much more targeted much more feasible one and done kind of projects and groups and get things done in a more efficient way Cody Allen: And then the same time, you know, it’s difficult for people to, you know, be part of a task or have be part of a group and work really hard and some internal Cody Allen: Measures or some internal instructions for how to do something and then join another group and then you’re just doing the exact same thing. Basically, over and over again Cody Allen: And then we’ll, we’ll talk a little about just, you know, how exciting it can be to get Cody Allen: These kinds of groups together in the send them out and just we talked a little bit about Cody Allen: How much is kind of lost in zoom and digital meetings and just what that Cody Allen: physical presence and physical gathering brings to the table and being able to send people around and have them presenting, kind of like new information and new things and new exciting things and libraries would be pretty powerful. So Cody Allen: I don’t think I left anything out. Did I God made me Amy Marchwick: Think that was it Tracy Cook: Thanks, which group would like to go next Pam (MSL), (she/her): I will go next. I was with Roberta and Cara and Sam Pam (MSL), (she/her): And Pam (MSL), (she/her): We talked about, you know, this is a good idea, but we just wondered, you know, how does it work for everyone and Pam (MSL), (she/her): How is it different from what’s already out there Pam (MSL), (she/her): We feel like it needs to be explained to everyone so that not just a small group is managing everything which kind of happens a lot. So to get more people involved Pam (MSL), (she/her): And how in something like this. Sometimes some groups or libraries or whatever compromise more than others. Just to make it all work, but they sometimes feel like they’re giving up more than others do and that Pam (MSL), (she/her): Can be a little bit of a problem. We also agreed that oh, we talked about different. These are so many different kinds of libraries that they have different missions and Pam (MSL), (she/her): Maybe the place to start would be to find out what is core to all of them and focus on that to start. We also agreed that we were really not big picture people. So we were having a hard time with this Pam (MSL), (she/her): Because we’re more practical and nuts and bolts. So we were having a hard time seeing the big picture Pam (MSL), (she/her): But Karen mentioned that it would be really helpful to know what outcomes. We were looking for and what resources were there to support those outcomes to start with that Pam (MSL), (she/her): We liked also liked the suggestion of the MLM university so that people had background Pam (MSL), (she/her): Because sometimes you lose the historical background and newer people don’t really know what was the reasoning behind it like a shared catalog Pam (MSL), (she/her): Some of the directors who were there when it first started, you know, knew the reason that everybody was joining the share a catalog. But newer directors, just come in and it’s already there and Pam (MSL), (she/her): They don’t really get the historical understanding of why was there. So to have a knowledge base of that kind of stuff we thought might be helpful Pam (MSL), (she/her): I think that was pretty much what we said but Roberta and Karen, Sam. If there’s something else we need Pam (MSL), (she/her): Something Tracy Cook: Thank you. Pam Sam Walters: Yes Sam Walters: Very much. I think he had now that Tracy Cook: Someone else speaking

Flick, Joann: This is Joe I can, I can go next, my group was Sarah from the law library. And we also had us Public Library there as well. Nancy Schmidt was there so Flick, Joann: Are the weariness came from the this a sense that there’s might be somewhat duplicate work Flick, Joann: Like for instance, we had kind of a conversation about the role of the Federation’s and how that might play into this since I’m the small library smallest libraries already are participating in their federation. Could we maybe utilize that someone might be a good idea to make sure that Flick, Joann: The Montana library net work benefits. They’ll smallest libraries, without giving them. Another thing they have to do Flick, Joann: Was wanting to person libraries and one of the suggestions was that we could maybe start with a thorough inventory. This is following up on what you said. Pam of what libraries are already doing and what their hopes and dreams are Flick, Joann: Right now, the common services and programs that that are already going on. That would be easy to then scale up statewide cost is the biggest concern and especially sustaining services Flick, Joann: How do we pay for something that Flick, Joann: After the after the initial funding is gone and people we mentioned, you know, that short term services and programs that come and go, are problematic Flick, Joann: And for example, the auto repair manual is missed and, you know, we could we could afford to provide that for free for libraries. Now, now we don’t. And they can afford it on their own. So, and then Flick, Joann: Everybody’s fines costs, Sheriff formulas difficult I think the word we used in our group was it’s one of those cringe worthy Flick, Joann: Terms. And then, then the question is how to school and special and academic libraries fit in Flick, Joann: So some some concerns in my group Tracy Cook: Thank you Joe Tracy Cook: Wants to go next Kate Peterson: I can jump in. This is Kate and john and I were in a group together and we we were, I think, on the same page in that we were still trying to wrap our brains around Kate Peterson: Where, where, exactly. This is headed and Kate Peterson: Feeling a little bit unsure of Kate Peterson: Someone else that the nuts and bolts and how this is all what this is going to look like or or what the exact direction that we’re headed in and understand that some of that is unknown Kate Peterson: So we neither of us felt very concerned or didn’t see any red flags, as far as what we understand of the direction of this but Kate Peterson: I don’t know that either of us felt super confident that we we know exactly Kate Peterson: We could see value in Kate Peterson: Having people who could be really invested in a particular area and know a lot about that particular area. So, and then allow them to advise the knack Kate Peterson: Sometimes it feels like on the neck. We are expected to know everything about everything. And most of us don’t Kate Peterson: And instead of maybe having an area of expertise that we can really Kate Peterson: Know and understand and feel confident in Kate Peterson: Contributing something to the group so Kate Peterson: We saw some value in in that idea Kate Peterson: I think that might be it, Gianna jump in if there’s something I’m missing. I’m sure there is jonna underwood: No, I think you think you got it. Thank you, Kate, appreciate it Tracy Cook: Thank you. Okay Tracy Cook: I think we have a couple more groups left Suzanne Reymer: Yeah, I’ll jump in. Now because there’s a moment of silence. So I’ll take take advantage of that Suzanne Reymer: Silent to my end, not yours Suzanne Reymer: I was in a group with Susie and Rebecca and Victoria and we spend some time talking about the difficulties of cost your formulas with these and you know and how to be equitable Suzanne Reymer: With that with coming up with something that people can afford and it also reflects somehow the usage, particularly since we have things that, you know, Suzanne Reymer: The cost is impacted by usage and we were concerned, as we saw that the list on the left, get longer and longer and wondering really how to prioritize

Suzanne Reymer: Because thinking about Suzanne Reymer: MSC and Montana library to go as being very important and not wanting to short those out and Montana library to go already doesn’t really have enough money. And so, you know, anything that would kind of take away from things that we’re doing now that are successful Suzanne Reymer: Could be, you know, problematic Suzanne Reymer: And that we might want to look at others in terms of you know what the, what the total. It was really difficult to know Suzanne Reymer: How interested, we’d be into the other things without having more information on what are the total costs as far as staff money and involvement Suzanne Reymer: Are, and we also talked about how difficult it is to get people to participate in a number of the cooperative groups that we already have and some kind of different strategies for Suzanne Reymer: For, you know, encouraging hat. Some punitive some more positive as far as, you know, actually, personally, asking people, you know, to step up and be involved, instead of just putting it out there. You know, does anyone want to do this, which Suzanne Reymer: Your does anyone was serve on this committee, you know, which is really easy to back away from to fill it you know somebody else more qualified will come forward or you know that you don’t have to do it at that point and then also some concerned about those libraries, who Suzanne Reymer: You know, end up you know who have more resources, who are investing more and Suzanne Reymer: And those who aren’t and yet their patrons have the same benefit and whether that’s really Suzanne Reymer: Equitable and sustainable in the long run, and Suzanne Reymer: Anything else that I missed for my group that Suzanne Reymer: People want to make sure to get in on that Rebekah Kamp: I think you covered it. Suzanne Victoria: Yeah. Thanks again Thanks Tracy Cook: Thanks. Suzanne Tracy Cook: Said, everyone Tracy Cook: I fail to Tracy Cook: Take a snapshot. Oh, go ahead Jennifer Birnel: This Jennifer Pamela and joy were in my group and because they are both at academic institutions, we talked about the impact of this Jennifer Birnel: So they brought out some different things that maybe haven’t been discussed Jennifer Birnel: Yet today. And that’s just the overall changes that are happening in academia and how that might affect how they could be involved and Pamela joy, please jump in, help me with this because you stated it better than I probably can restate it right now Jennifer Birnel: The other thing that they were looking at. I think about was the changing demographics of Montana and how attentive grain so much faster. We are having a much older population here in the state Jennifer Birnel: Pamela’s that she’d read that we were ninth in the nation for having more seniors than any other state Jennifer Birnel: That they also pointed out that their funding models of at the academic level are very different. And so how they approach being involved in a kosher formula Jennifer Birnel: Need a little more time and making sure I pointed out that the tribal library. A lot of grant funding is used. And so that would take some planning to be able to contribute to usher Jennifer Birnel: And one thing I added to the board. Tracy that you had started in palette was communication for the town library network itself that we would need a really good way to communicate Jennifer Birnel: What services libraries are offering how we communicate with libraries close to us who might be offering services that were and how we encourage patrons to take advantage of those Jennifer Birnel: We talked about how smaller groups Jennifer Birnel: Would Jennifer Birnel: Increase the number of voices being heard and that in this large setting like this, it’s really hard for some people to speak up. So we don’t ever hear their voices, even though they have really good thoughts and that in a smaller group. It’s much easier to have those conversations Jennifer Birnel: And then joy brought up. I think what was a really good point was the thought of a universal library card for the state of Montana that Jennifer Birnel: So that we could utilize if I’m a library close by offers something that our community library does not that we could encourage the Jennifer Birnel: Use of another library within her area and she pointed out how important that was during the pandemic when they were closed

Jennifer Birnel: People were still from their area that we’re in. However, we still have to use the apropos. Right. And when they were in lockdown being able to call a hyper Public Library and renew books and do different things because their communities were closely tied and how that worked out for them Jennifer Birnel: I miss you guys Jennifer Birnel: We talked about a lot of stuff Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): We also noted that, you know, if Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): It’d be easier to have cross library cooperation, if we were all on the same like L LM s CRM, whatever you want to call it Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Certainly that would that would be helpful, but that may or may not Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Be the case Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Yeah, the academic world is completely going to be undergoing chefs Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Maybe not right away but I suspect sooner than they wanted to Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): So that that article from the New York Times or The opinion piece I went through it like at least twice, and it really resonated and I think they’re spot on Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): What that means, as far as how we we work with other libraries. I don’t know. There are opportunities there possibly we talked about this before, but that learn to work or to learn never ending cycle. It’s going to be completely different all modular Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): So how does that play in with with us working cooperatively, again, the public libraries is more accessible more approachable more everything, I think, than the academics are and I’m Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Definitely a concern about Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): The graying of the state and the fact that you’re going to have Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): So many older folks are not that many younger folks and in between generation that support both it’s going to be like this. So tax base Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Is going to be, I would think an issue. On the other hand, you got a lot of people moving in. So I don’t know what that does Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): But kind of a high level view. I think you know it’s advantageous to have all of the different library groups working together to give us a more leveraged voice Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): In general, I don’t know, alone, how much, how much do we have, but together that might be pretty helpful Tracy Cook: Thank you. Pamela and Jennifer Tracy Cook: I think that’s everyone right Tracy Cook: But we have you heard from all groups Tracy Cook: So Bruce and Jenny, do you have any kind of Tracy Cook: follow up questions or comments or thoughts from the group or for the group Bruce Newell: Well, in terms of thumbs up or thumbs down. Should we pursue that. Should we, the state library, the state library Commission pursue this Tracy Cook: You can use the reaction to do a thumbs up. I don’t think, unfortunately, you can do a thumbs down Tracy Cook: So you have to say. Thumbs down in the chat Tracy Cook: And if you’re neutral, that’s okay too Bruce Newell: Or are there any Members here who thinks this is just a dumb idea Bruce Newell: Jenny, what’s, what’s your read Jennie Stapp: I think Jennie Stapp: That. And I think it’s worth continuing to have a conversation. I want to go back and debrief with staff and Jennie Stapp: We should I did want to let you all know that I plan to talk about this as well as the public library standards process at our website chat tomorrow at noon. So anybody’s welcome to join us for the website chat for more conversation Jennie Stapp: What I what I think might be most helpful to frame the conversation for us and for the Commission is thinking about Jennie Stapp: What changes in the near term, and what changes in the long term, with regard to the services that we’re offering today and how we think about those services today and how we might think about and approach those kinds of services and new services in the future

Jennie Stapp: We don’t have any more money. We’re not going to be offering a grand new suite of services in the next couple of months. That’s not what this is about Jennie Stapp: What I think could change is the makeup of our network advisory council and and how we engage others in the library community to Jennie Stapp: Give them real work and to make the most use of their time to advise us in meaningful ways I think that is something that we might see what I would hope to see is us Jennie Stapp: Being really deliberate about identifying success measures for the different kinds of services you identified today and going through a process over time, not you know with the resources we have of identifying Jennie Stapp: how close we are to achieving those successes with the resources we have right now. What kinds of low hanging fruit, such as changes in behavior might help us to better achieves us Jennie Stapp: Where we might invest your resources if the resources are available to help us achieve those kinds of success. And I mean that Jennie Stapp: Large largely on a service by service basis Jennie Stapp: And then I think with regard to amylin as as a whole, and I would want to talk about this within every Council to give you the greatest measure of success. Is that fair library access evolution Jennie Stapp: And how, how are we evaluating our leads. She that the intent of that resolution, if we’re successful in Jennie Stapp: Successfully delivering the services Jennie Stapp: I would assume that we would then be more successful in our ability to achieve the intent of that resolution. So how can we evaluate whether or not that’s the case and continue Jennie Stapp: I would hope that we could rely on subject matter experts in these different service areas, ask them questions like, Jennie Stapp: What might these services look like if we are collaborating across Jennie Stapp: All types of libraries. How do we benefit different types of users with different users needs and users information seeking behaviors. When we think about these kinds of services. Those are all questions that we can begin asking ourselves and and and Jennie Stapp: Begin to evaluate those kinds of answers. It takes takes people with with knowledge and time to commit Jennie Stapp: But, but largely that that’s what we’re talking about investing as we’re talking about changing now those are all things that I think if we can get movement from Jennie Stapp: library community, we can begin to move forward on in very real, meaningful ways in relatively short order. Those are the kinds of conversations, I want to continue to have with the library community and ultimately with the library Commission, when we think about Jennie Stapp: What kinds of changes, especially to our overall governance, you might recommend to the mission Jennie Stapp: Have to tackle Asha questions that’s Jennie Stapp: That’s real Jennie Stapp: Advisory Council Jennie Stapp: When me the recommendation that we do some Jennie Stapp: Evaluation of services that different libraries Jennie Stapp: Have or offering and I agree with that. I think we have a lot of good information. For example, if you can cross public libraries, even at school. Every so much, but at least across public libraries, we have a pretty good idea of what is Jennie Stapp: Don’t necessarily know what kinds of resources Jennie Stapp: Individual libraries are offering how I know you guys have some of that information within trails already know some information vibrates comprehensive Jennie Stapp: I would suggest that that might be worth of a committee and resources To help us Jennie Stapp: I see those all those pieces of pulling together what might be this content library network. A network of

Jennie Stapp: Services, by which we’re evaluating our delivering services. And as I said before, I think as much about our behavior. I think it’s a matter of approaching these questions collaboratively, making sure that we’re not creating silos Jennie Stapp: We’re asking questions of people who have the most expertise in those areas Jennie Stapp: Those are my thoughts right now Tracy Cook: Any other questions or comments I’ve been taking notes of the group’s presented Dennis Jr and Bruce spoke Jennie Stapp: I would love to get some reaction to Jennie Stapp: Work thoughts about our approach to the makeup of our different executive boards and advisory councils Jennifer asked if we think those need to be renamed we had a brief discussion about that Jennie Stapp: Be especially with the network Advisory Council, we have a large Advisory Council, we try to be as inclusive as possible Jennie Stapp: I don’t know that we’re always Jennie Stapp: Very good about giving the neck real work and I hope with rethinking about the next focus on MLM that that might change just a little bit Jennie Stapp: What are, what do you think about perhaps approaching Jennie Stapp: The questions of cataloguing with a smaller group and having a committee that would make recommendations that to the network advisory council or Jennie Stapp: About he resources, including databases and ebooks, for example, where a lot of the work would go on within the committee’s and we might have a smaller network advisory council that is ultimately making recommendations to the state library Commission Jennie Stapp: Does anybody have concerns with the idea of baby be a little bit less democratic and inclusive Jennie Stapp: If the alternative is having people who have more expertise in the area Jennie Stapp: Providing their recommendations Bruce Newell: It strikes me that that what this has the potential of doing is giving more power to the neck basically decision making, providing advice to the Commission Bruce Newell: Would be done by us, by a smaller group then there would be focused task force that may be permanent may be Bruce Newell: Formed and then they they go away when the work is done reporting to the to the neck. It strikes me that while the neck might be smaller, that the participation in the work of the neck would be larger, because we’d be pulling in, more, more people to work on the task force Bruce Newell: It might be really key in terms of sort of a fair distribution of people on the neck in terms of library size and typing in geography, etc Bruce Newell: To, to think about the terms for people on that. How long do they have to be. How long does a member have to be on to have enough experience to provide good advice, but still get cycled through so that there is the the voice the collective voice of the neck is broadly representative over Bruce Newell: All of Montana libraries. I think if we do this we need to make sure that we’re actually increasing participation in increasing input to Bruce Newell: The State Library Commission filtered through the the neck so that that the the work in terms of deciding what is what’s, what are the prioritized items is made by the small group of really capable really gung ho eager people Bruce Newell: From the Commission point of view, we’re giving up from just a politics point of view, we’re giving up power to the neck so that there are better decisions being made with with less gap between between libraries work and the Commission’s decision making

Bruce Newell: Is that it makes sense Victoria: People Victoria: On the neck. The made up of instead of representing different kinds of libraries representing different groups like one person on the neck would represent cataloging and one would represent a content Victoria: That sort of thing Bruce Newell: Yeah, I don’t know. I think that’s a good question and interesting idea Bruce Newell: Just to make sure it’s understood. This is actually a proposal that returns to the way that we used to do business Bruce Newell: In large part the neck did have a huge voice and staring the state library, the state library commissions decisions. And so this is basically returning to that Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): This is Pamela again. I mean it is putting in more layers but there might be more effective layers Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Seems like someone noted, I mean the neck has some knowledge, but we don’t have specific knowledge about everything. So you need those subcommittees or what have you, specialists that can advise on appropriate areas and it’s always a balance between democracy and efficiency, I suppose Pamela Benjamin (TRAILS): Maybe streamlining a little bit, but it’s going to make us more owed me, I would think would make the neck more informed and more agile and agility is the name of the game going forward Jennie Stapp: Somebody said earlier that might actually increase the number of voices at the table in in a meaningful way. And I think that that Jennie Stapp: Could be exactly right. And I would hope that that would be the case with a larger people be sharing her expertise sharing their recommendations in ways that is is really influential Jennie Stapp: They might not be the ones directly Jennie Stapp: Quoting or making recommendations on how the state library staying there LSE that that decision might be left to a smaller network Advisory Council Jennie Stapp: But Jennie Stapp: Really well informed by people who Jennie Stapp: BELIEVE STRONGLY and feel deeply about the questions Tracy Cook: And Tracy Cook: Rebecca had a very good question. Can you please clarify the relationship of MLM and the knack is the ML in or reimagined version of the neck or with a nap report to the MLM Tracy Cook: And Sarah asked Jennie Stapp: Say this again Jennie Stapp: bears repeating. Many times Jennie Stapp: The MLM is who I don’t think it’s an organization think it is what we do. I think it’s how we think about what we do. It is those services. So I don’t think there is a separate body that is MLM reports to the nap Jennie Stapp: That’s, that’s my view that’s my vision Jennie Stapp: That’s what we’re talking about today, but I don’t need more layers of Jennie Stapp: Bureaucracy Jennie Stapp: What I hope is Jennie Stapp: I was thinking about what we said about the FDIC stickers know that that the sticker on our doors of our libraries Jennie Stapp: Know, collaborate with one another. We also work with and others services. We’re all our own libraries, but we all benefit from that collaboration Bruce Newell: It better through collaboration Jennie Stapp: And collaboration. Yeah Bruce Newell: Cooperation oh my god cooperation Jennie Stapp: You know, I think Bruce said before the Ark Advisory Council was sort of the library board or these kinds of services. I think that’s probably a more apt model Jennie Stapp: And than anything else Jennie Stapp: And like any library board. It has subcommittees that does the hard work Bruce Newell: You know, they’ll never be enough resources to everything that that our patrons need for for their benefit Bruce Newell: But, but we there are better balances better compromises, then, some are better than others. And if Bruce Newell: When I would hope is the neck Bruce Newell: Would provide

Bruce Newell: More better informed more agile Bruce Newell: Wiser more risk taking more patron centric advice to the Commission about ultimately how we spend our spend or bucks Bruce Newell: If we do that, and I’d consider this to be to be really successful and, you know, Jenny. The, the FDIC sticker. If you know MLM, you know, a patron walks up to the front door of their library says you were part of this cooperating Montana library network and so Bruce Newell: This is a really great place to get library services because you get lots more for you know than you would if this was a standalone Bruce Newell: If patients start to understand that then then make it start, you know, using using understanding to Bruce Newell: Both for communication to patrons, but also for communications to funding bindings and say, gee, Mr legislature, you know, we’ve got this really great thing happening it’s working really well. How about another 10 million Tracy Cook: So there are a few questions. I’m going to go ahead and ask Charisse now because it fits well with what we’re talking about at the moment that changes. So the changes are more in the advisory structure in the administrative structure. Is that accurate Bruce Newell: I’m not sure I understand Bruce Newell: Understand the question Jennie Stapp: Yeah. When you say administrative structure Jennie Stapp: Want to make sure Orban, Cara: I mean that we are Orban, Cara: What is actually what is being proposed is that we are reorganizing the neck to Orban, Cara: Be more focused on different areas of service, not necessarily siloed programs but areas of emphasis, such as risky resources or programming and so on Orban, Cara: That that advisory structure would change to inform the way that we administer programs is that what does. I think there are some of us who are not entirely clear on what Orban, Cara: Is being proposed Jennie Stapp: A healthful concrete example Jennie Stapp: So, Jennie Stapp: With your process of identifying services that Jennie Stapp: We offer that we think are scalable, it can be offered collaboratively together and Jennie Stapp: What I would hope is that we could have a small group of dedicated librarians for each of those service areas that Jennie Stapp: Are sort of our go to group of professionals who are Jennie Stapp: Thinking about policies and recommendations that pertain to those services that Jennie Stapp: Keep an eye to the future of those services that can help advise and recommend where we might invest funding resources Jennie Stapp: Where we might Jennie Stapp: spend more money to have more benefit. They’re making those recommendations to the network Advisory Council Jennie Stapp: You know, we might have a content management committee, for example, might make recommendations about a cooperative cataloguing contract Jennie Stapp: That the state should pursue, for example, and that the network advisory council. What a way that recommendation with a recommendation from an E resources group or Jennie Stapp: A new ebook platform. And I’m just Jennie Stapp: Kind of making random random thoughts there and that the network advisory council would evaluate recommendations Jennie Stapp: And and help advise the state library commission on how we prioritize our resources to most effectively deliver services given resources we have today with this groups work continuing future keeping an eye to Jennie Stapp: future opportunities that there are go to group when we face the next next disaster, and we need a group of subject matter experts to help advise the state library on how that services being impacted by academic work, we should be thinking about planning for blood work

Jennie Stapp: Those kinds of questions that we ask ourselves as a delivery commission as us Jennie Stapp: Does that, does that help. So I think in that way it is. We’re advisory then administrative I think the State Library still plays a role in managing contracts and Jennie Stapp: We are fees, although we have, I hope, dedicated professionals that help us with that work and that we know who who those professionals are Bruce Newell: My experiences. These are pictures of these kinds of efforts changes and evolves over time fairly quickly. But one thing that would be interesting to me if this were an existence right now Bruce Newell: Is that that the the knack would advise the Commission about a core set of library content and services that every library in the state every public library in the state. And we can deal with school and others, secondarily, but every public library in the state has access to Bruce Newell: It. And from that, we would figure out what the cost of like that and then it seems like the next big chunk of that would coming be coming up with a cost sharing formula Bruce Newell: In a revenue funding formula that together made it possible for every library to participate, even if they had very, very few resources Bruce Newell: In those libraries with more resources didn’t feel like they were paying more than their share that everyone was getting every library was getting a fair shake Bruce Newell: With a free shake to those libraries truly unable to play because it’s not the libraries, in my view, it’s, it’s their community that if the library Bruce Newell: Doesn’t have access to some of these great tools and these this great content and stuff that there are people are being left behind. So one of the outcomes. To me it seems would be Bruce Newell: Every library wants to play and they all play at an affordable and fair amount in terms of their, their money costs Bruce Newell: Nothing to it Susie Mcintyre: This is Susie. And one of the things that our group talked about was that it would be. I know we couldn’t have an exact cost, but when we were lifting the things on the far left Susie Mcintyre: In traces column Susie Mcintyre: To just Susie Mcintyre: It if we can get some idea of what what what are the current costs of those are what are, what is the estimated cost, not just financially, but in terms of staff time because one of the things that I kept thinking, while we were adding things to that left hand column is Susie Mcintyre: How is the margin is a library staff going to do all of that and Susie Mcintyre: If we’re going to make recommendations about what to pursue it, you know, is is doing this thing going to take, you know, Susie Mcintyre: $2,000 and 40 hours. Oh yeah, sure, throw that in. Is it going to take 10 staff members and a million and a half dollars, let’s think a little bit more about it because I don’t know if that makes sense. But in terms of Susie Mcintyre: Figuring out how to prioritize it I it’s been hard for me to wrap my head around how to prioritize without number and staff time Susie Mcintyre: Things behind it. But obviously, in our brains trumping weren’t going to come up with that. But in terms of future meetings Jennie Stapp: Yeah, exactly. Susie. I think those are those are questions for future meetings Jennie Stapp: And Jennie Stapp: I don’t do those barriers to Jennie Stapp: My tell every network if multiple every network is how we think about our services and and that’s just Jennie Stapp: It’s how how we talk about the work that we do Jennie Stapp: Answering questions like, what, what would it cost to do X, or what would it cost to provide this core set of services that is the work of these advisory groups that we’re talking Bruce Newell: With with staff support from those libraries able to do so, and particularly from the state library. Yeah Tracy Cook: So I want to go back to a couple of questions Tracy Cook: Let’s see Joe flick had asked Can could we give a structural role to Federation’s in this decision making procedure Tracy Cook: And Joe, you might need to clarify a little bit more not totally sure what you mean. I think at that time we were talking about the next role in making decisions

Flick, Joann: Yeah, and I think, and this goes to, I think, something that came up in some of this several the small group discussions about not wanting to, you know, duplicate effort and some of the expressions that people had about Flick, Joann: Trying to get people to participate in the process. And so it was observed in my group that libraries do have representation at the federation meetings and Flick, Joann: That there’s pretty good representation of Federation of libraries at the federation meetings and that that would be a structural component for them to be involved in Flick, Joann: Decision making would help maybe alleviate that without burdening people with another meeting or responsibility. Does that make sense Flick, Joann: Let’s use what we already have Jennie Stapp: That’s what I have to give a little more thought to not Jennie Stapp: Not that I want to be Jennie Stapp: Federation’s by any means, but I’m Jennie Stapp: With the status. So for most of our services and I had this conversation with a few different people in the past Jennie Stapp: I think we created the Federation’s with the idea that we were going to build these regional services. And if you look at the the statues that create Federation’s Jennie Stapp: They do near a lot of those rural districts that we see in other states. I think that was sort of the intent. And one of the original shared I logs was up on the Highline and involve the federation or two and Jennie Stapp: We sort of leapfrog over this idea of building these regional cooperatives and just went straight to statewide Jennie Stapp: And so our show Jennie Stapp: But that Jennie Stapp: And so I think it’s, it’s probably appropriate for us to make sure that at least we’re thinking about services of that scale that we’re we’re Jennie Stapp: Including statewide representation of those decisions when we think about services that might perhaps scale more appropriately to a federation level, then I think thinking about how the Federation’s play a role in that structure is really important Jennie Stapp: I don’t know if that if it in my way of thinking. I don’t know if that’s true for all of our services or not and and other people might have other ideas about that Bruce Newell: I think we’d be well advised to take a pragmatic reexamination and Federation’s role Bruce Newell: Thing is, they’re written into code and they were written into code at a time Bruce Newell: When the network when the internet was not thought of the web was not thought of and network services were not Bruce Newell: Not something that England did with in libraries, with the possible exception of maybe OCLC and manually maybe Pacific Northwest demographic center and then W land Bruce Newell: So I think it’s worth. It’s worth taking a look Bruce Newell: I would take, and I would hate to force a fit Bruce Newell: On to federations, if it didn’t serve a purpose Bruce Newell: But if there’s something that we could do to Bruce Newell: Improve the delivery of services to communities. And then in Federation’s can play a role, then by all means, I think we should use them Bruce Newell: That the kinds of services, we’re talking about are generally scale, at least to a state level and as someone noted earlier in this discussion today, perhaps beyond state borders and Bruce Newell: We don’t need to reinvent. We don’t need to reinvent OCLC but the Bruce Newell: There are lots of things that we do that might be improved by talking working more closely with her or or Bruce Newell: Colleagues in Wyoming and the Dakotas in Idaho Bruce Newell: So I think that that would be that would be a fair, that’d be fair game for discussion, all of the above, and thinking about Federation’s Federation should be fair game for discussion, but I would hate to take in form Bruce Newell: Statewide services around necessarily around the mold of Federation’s if that’s not the best possible fit

Jennifer Birnel: It seems to me like and maybe I’m oversimplifying this, but I think Jennifer Birnel: We’re trying to this discussion is making the organization more difficult than it needs to be. So we have the neck, which stands for network advisory committee Jennifer Birnel: If we think of the knack as the Montana library network Advisory Committee. It’s the same thing. We already share a lot of these services. We are recreating Jennifer Birnel: We’re creating a lot of new services, we’re thinking about how we share them and how we utilize them. So if you think of the knack is it as a different organization as a whole as the Montana library network Jennifer Birnel: Advisory Council who has committees. The bottom delivery network committees who report to the neck to inform them to make better decisions Jennifer Birnel: I think we could simplify. I think it’s just a lot of Jennifer Birnel: Report. We’re trying to make it too difficult to describe a body, if that makes sense Bruce Newell: And then key to me, Jennifer is is every library. Who wants to play able to play Bruce Newell: And I really don’t know the answer to that Bruce Newell: Are there libraries out there who wants to be part of the shared catalog who can’t afford it. Who wants to be part of the the Montana library to go who can’t be part of it Bruce Newell: Who would like to participate in some of the Montana memory stuff, but just can’t get it together and could stand will help if there are those libraries, then, that to me is a role for Bruce Newell: Us. The other thing is, is MLM is not about libraries, it just canes me, Jenny. It’s about library users Bruce Newell: Are library users for members, whatever that Members means of this this larger collaborative cooperative culture Bruce Newell: Cooperative systems system of libraries throughout Montana and that means we get the really great library service and the really great library materials. It’s not about what like what libraries do it’s about what our patrons get to do Bruce Newell: Wow. I just feel like I’ve achieved enlightenment Tracy Cook: Thank you. Bruce okay if we have a couple more questions. I think Susie’s question about, could we do some focus groups with a range of libraries about specific questions when necessary Tracy Cook: Susie, were you referring to just kind of ways to ensure that we have. We hear everyone’s voice. If we’re going with a smaller Tracy Cook: Smaller structure Susie Mcintyre: Yes, if we were going to do a smaller structure than if we had a specific question, like if we were looking at the cataloging piece and you know we have fewer of us here or maybe we just pulled together a couple focus groups Susie Mcintyre: And ask them about that specific question. And then, you know, it’s a one off where we make sure we’re representative by by asking the question, to what Susie Mcintyre: We need to Tracy Cook: Yeah, absolutely. Yep Tracy Cook: And the final question from Rebecca, would it be accurate to say that library participation in the MLS and would mean that you subscribe to one of the centralized collaborative services we described earlier in this meeting Jennie Stapp: Invite you that’s really what it is. And like I said before, I think it’s fair to say that every public library in Montana already does Jennie Stapp: Subscribe to our participate in at least one collaborative program Jennie Stapp: Many of the schools, libraries already do Jennie Stapp: Trails Jennie Stapp: You can think about Jennie Stapp: What what trails and MLM are. That’s a bigger bigger question to think about too but I Jennie Stapp: Guess, in my mind, I already view all Montana libraries as part of the network Susie Mcintyre: This is to the and I just have to throw out one thing that they’re, you know, I appreciate your epiphany Bruce about it’s about library patrons Susie Mcintyre: But I also feel like we have to recognize that there are mountain and that choose like we vote down this Levy, we are choosing not to have these services because we don’t prioritize them. And then there are other Montanans that choose to vote in support of a levy

Susie Mcintyre: And Susie Mcintyre: And I don’t know how that plays into this but Susie Mcintyre: I feel like Susie Mcintyre: If my patrons are telling me they don’t want to pay for this stuff and it doesn’t seem fair that Susie Mcintyre: That other community members other districts have to support my patrons don’t want to pay for it Bruce Newell: I take your point. I think that needs to be talked through but to me when I think about this. I keep coming back to the patrons and Bruce Newell: Just a sense that every Montana and ought to have access to library content and sort of services sufficient to their needs, that’s just sort of Bruce Newell: An equal rights level of thing with me, which is a matter of faith in etc. So I could be wrong. And I understand that that may not be shared. I understand that Bruce Newell: Some people would say the opposite that have a community side support the service and their their their community members deserve access to it Bruce Newell: As opposed to a community which decides it doesn’t want to pay for this. So their community members don’t get it because democratic process happen locally and they’re in one hand, there was participation in one hand, not and I understand that Bruce Newell: I just my gut feeling Susie, as though that when push comes to shove, Bruce Newell: Leaning on sort of the, the, the precepts of our Bill of Rights and stuff in the state and Al a bill of rights and all that stuff that people do have a right to Bruce Newell: Like library services that meet their needs. And without that, that our democracy suffers and the people’s rights are being aggregated Bruce Newell: So that’s Bruce Newell: I think that’s my answer to you when I understand that may not be a sufficient answer Bruce Newell: I’d love to discuss this over a beer Susie Mcintyre: I don’t drink bears. I do drink Margarita I Bruce Newell: Guess Bruce Newell: Now shut up after saying this, that’s, that to me is the import of the resolution on fer fer access to libraries that the Commission past two years ago. It says, fundamentally, Bruce Newell: It doesn’t talk about libraries or communities or anything. It says every Mon cannon regardless is a is a person was inherent dignity and worth in has the right to good library services Bruce Newell: Which is somewhat radical thing to say, but I don’t think it’s that radical. I think it actually echoes directly what’s in all this other stuff. And it’s in line with all this other stuff in the Commission felt that as well Bruce Newell: But it’s it’s it’s big step. And since you’re asking the question, Susie i think i think that you get it. And like I say, will have Margarita Jennie Stapp: Yes, and Susie Mcintyre: It’s not that I don’t want people to have that I just feel like it’s unfair that my people attacks themselves at a much lower rate than Lewis and Clark and Susie Mcintyre: I don’t, I don’t know what we do with Tracy Cook: Well, I think we’re other libraries have found us. They’ve been afraid to ask the question Tracy Cook: But when they have asked the question of the wider community. The community is voted yes Tracy Cook: Which living in your community Susie, I understand why you might Tracy Cook: Think the question will be now Tracy Cook: Any other thoughts on that kind of Bruce and Susie’s mentioning of Tracy Cook: I think fairness and equity Tracy Cook: So Pamela had two questions Tracy Cook: She thought she heard Bruce mentioned that K through 12 rule may need to be considered later. Can you expound on that and will LSD a funding me be made available for this Jennie Stapp: I can jump in on both of those Jennie Stapp: I think to the extent that we can include K 12 and academic and all these discussions we should Jennie Stapp: You know, I would very much like to know how we can support the resources for all types of libraries. And in fact, we were talking about that right now. How do we support the resources Jennie Stapp: Across a lifetime. And I think it might depend a little bit on what kind of service that we’re offering and what the, what the needs are to better understand how we engage a 12

Jennie Stapp: Because they do very, you know, we’ve learned that he needs for Interlibrary Loan are dramatically different than how we perceive needs for Jennie Stapp: Iowa within public libraries, but it’s not necessarily a one size fits all approach. One of the questions I would have for these so committees are calling them with the, how would we approach the service across all the tape libraries, for example Jennie Stapp: With regard to LLC funding Jennie Stapp: So LSE funds and most of the work it from the state libraries Jennie Stapp: Most of the work of state libraries investing on the services and the staff to support the right now is is Alice T funded Jennie Stapp: We come to the knack every year with Jennie Stapp: Budget recommendations for our LSTM award and I would hope that if we’re successful and thinking about Evelyn in this way Jennie Stapp: Through the work of these committees Jennie Stapp: Advising or making recommendations to a network advisory council or an MLM advisory council, if that’s what you choose to call it then that Council is recommending to the state library Commission where we are investing those LSE dollars to Jennie Stapp: maximize our investment in these kinds of stores. They don’t think that necessarily changes our investment right now but Jennie Stapp: Hopefully, as we continue to grow our LSA dollars and other sources of funding that you have more and more funds available Tracy Cook: And Sarah McClain just give a thumbs up to the way Jennifer articulated the idea and God. So do you have a timeline Jennie Stapp: With regard to a timeline, like we said this is going to be talked about at the December mission meeting Jennie Stapp: Will be ready to roll to recommend make some concrete recommendations at the December commission meeting or just be a Jennie Stapp: Discussion item on their agenda Jennie Stapp: With further discussion to come at a leader meeting Jennie Stapp: I do think we’re hoping to Jennie Stapp: Consider if this is a real realistic idea realistic approach making at least Jennie Stapp: Changes to our advisory structure in the next months that sooner Bruce Newell: Yeah, I think so. And I think to to work with this group and likely others but this group primarily towards coming up with a Bruce Newell: List of core services Core Content and then deciding to what degree that is made available to all libraries in the state and Bruce Newell: If that is the course that we wish to pursue Bruce Newell: What that does, to cost sharing formulas and what that does to Bruce Newell: Current or hope for streams of additional revenue think. From the Commission’s point of view, that sort of those are logic that those kind of stack up logically and then go from there Bruce Newell: I think the other thing that’s missing is this is this is at the end of the discussion we’re getting down to the really hard questions which Bruce Newell: This is this is good, but the discussion clearly needs to happen in every library in the state before I think I would encourage the Commission to take and come down hard, one way or the other Bruce Newell: The success. I think I’ve imagined before was because everyone had a voice everyone had a say Bruce Newell: In that the everyone say change the nature of what MLM was, for instance, the chair catalog wouldn’t have been had it not been transferred around the state. And in that Jasmine had been made by Lewis town Bruce Newell: Librarian. So I think that there’s miles to go before this becomes real. But I do see it if everyone says this is a good deal. Let’s Bruce Newell: Let’s look at getting these these core services into every library and, you know, this is how we can juggle current cost allocations. This is the additional money we have, I can see that feeding into the to

Bruce Newell: Legislative session Bruce Newell: I don’t know how you feel about that, Jenny, but that’s kind of my thinking is that Bruce Newell: That’s kind of how the money discussions would go Jennie Stapp: That makes sense Roberta Gebhardt: This is Roberta. And I just want to say I keep coming back to something Jenny said earlier where Roberta Gebhardt: There hasn’t been a lot of real work for the network advisory council or they haven’t done a lot of real work. And I think that this is a great way to do that to make it smaller Roberta Gebhardt: And use these committees and I do think you will get more participation. If it’s not a multi year commitment and if it’s focused on things that they are really comfortable with discussing and Roberta Gebhardt: I think Roberta Gebhardt: Having been on Roberta Gebhardt: The shirt catalog executive and board a couple different times, sometimes there isn’t real work. Sometimes it is basically you’re just saying yes to the staff and what the staff has already decided and the membership is not Roberta Gebhardt: Totally engaged because that’s kind of what how things have been happening. And so there’s not, it seems like there’s not real work happening by the executive boards. So I would, I encourage you to do this with an AK and see how it works. And then if it works Roberta Gebhardt: Look at other executive boards or other advisory boards and see how it could work for them Jennie Stapp: Thanks for Jennie Stapp: With regard to the other advisory boards. I think this is a conversation we need to have Jennie Stapp: With them, and I’m sorry Sean Anderson wasn’t able to join us today. I thought that he was going to a representative of the chair of the MSC executive board. We have Gianna from the Montana library to go for Jennie Stapp: Sam. Thanks for joining us from partners Jennie Stapp: I think those are conversations, we need to have with those groups to understand Jennie Stapp: What is important about their work or the membership of those sources Jennie Stapp: And how that work might change if you’re asking them to think beyond the silos of a marketer. I love we all the silos of Jennie Stapp: JOHN I don’t have you have any thoughts. Not to put you on the spot, but jonna underwood: Well, I think, Roberta made some good points about the nature of work on committees jonna underwood: I think I’m on the MSC committee, I just just started so still trying to get my footing, a little bit there jonna underwood: And like the Montana library to go committee. I’ve been on that for a while now and I think I finally have my footing. Finally, jonna underwood: But I think jonna underwood: Yeah, I think there are some committees, for example, the CMC you know there’s a committee that’s very, very task oriented group that has specific goals that they’re achieving amongst the group. You know how jonna underwood: You know, is this the right way that the catalog should look or do we need to change this. And who’s going to work on changing this and there’s there’s almost jonna underwood: You can see the changes that you’ve made jonna underwood: For instance, on a committee like that jonna underwood: A committee like Montana library to go is a little more jonna underwood: I would say it’s a little jonna underwood: A little less obvious of how the work, perhaps is being done or completed jonna underwood: You know, Susie knows as well as I do. The, the joy of cost share jonna underwood: And that, that’s a really big thing. And I don’t know that something like kosher formula jonna underwood: Is something that a group like the Montana library to go executive committee can handle on its own, because we have people just volunteering to take part and jonna underwood: You know, communicate to the rest of the Montana library to go community

jonna underwood: So, you know, when you’re talking about these groups of of jonna underwood: Experts, you know, in my mind, I’m thinking, well gee enough if there was a group of people, you know, probably, led by Susie, who wants to do. Who wants to develop a Cush their formula Susie jonna underwood: You know, and then she jonna underwood: No, no, no, no, it’s easy jonna underwood: You know, then you know that would help a group like Montana library to go jonna underwood: And again, I’m thinking in a very small term because I’m just thinking within the realm of Montana library to go. I haven’t had time to really think about the different ways that a group like Montana library to go jonna underwood: Could change over you know kind of what we’re talking about here jonna underwood: It is nice to be able to spend your time in meaningful ways and to be able to be able to see the results of the time you’ve spent jonna underwood: Doing something being on an ROI, the ROI RFP jonna underwood: Thing we just did thing. It took a lot of time, but we got something accomplished and that’s meaningful to me jonna underwood: And I think that type of work is meaningful for others too. So I rambled on too much. But getting back to Roberta. Yeah, she she kind of had that one Tracy Cook: I think we both of you, summed up is generally speaking, when a group has a specific thing they’re trying to accomplish Tracy Cook: It’s more successful, like I think about my work with the public library standards task force that group had a specific thing that they were doing. And that’s what we are talking about Tracy Cook: The other thought that just occurred to me as you were talking john and especially about the kosher formula is Tracy Cook: I’m struck sometimes by how much we act like the services are only used by a few libraries, when in fact Tracy Cook: The majority of public libraries are participating and an awful lot of our school libraries are participating and so when Montana library to go is making a decision Tracy Cook: There’s conflict, sometimes between what you’re making a decision on and what’s happening at the Montana share catalog level Tracy Cook: And yet, actually this in many cases the same group of libraries is in both or a pretty big chunk of that group and Tracy Cook: And I think our structure was built for the days when we had just a small group of libraries that were like trying to get these things started. Well, they’re here they’re mature. They need a different model to reflect that Tracy Cook: I just Tracy Cook: Wanted to share that thought. Now shut up and be a good facilitator Tracy Cook: Carol says I feel pretty strongly that funding and revenue have to be sorted out before we can develop a really sound cost formula and Bruce agrees with Cara on that Tracy Cook: And Kerry said thank you to the RFP, committee members. It was a long haul Jennie Stapp: Any I would Jennie Stapp: I would just Jennie Stapp: Add a couple of comments Jennie Stapp: Suspect mark and Larry to go Jennie Stapp: Executive Committee care very deeply about Jennie Stapp: Meeting their patrons leads for eBooks and creating really successful models for that and Jennie Stapp: FaceTime Susan’s reaction. He had he had committed for the crusher formula is treasury and not why you want to be Jennie Stapp: I would really hope that we can take that kind of work away from these committees and and really help them think about Jennie Stapp: How we can successfully deliver a resources And have that be there Susie Mcintyre: Yes, Susie Susie Mcintyre: Say, Megan Susie Mcintyre: And Jennie Stapp: I agree, we have to understand where the money comes from Jennie Stapp: I don’t agree that we have to figure out a funding source to pay for everything. We’re trying to or we can have that kind of pressure formula discussion Jennie Stapp: As long as Jennie Stapp: Libraries are willing to pitch in Jennie Stapp: The gym financially student help

Jennie Stapp: Me make up the services successful Jennie Stapp: If we’re if we think we have to come up with $10 million before we can develop the crusher formula start talking about rolling out these core services and Jennie Stapp: I think those are the kinds of Jennie Stapp: Requirements to become various to any kind of real success Bruce Newell: And when I say is, while I agree with Kara. I think the money has to be real before the formula can be real. I think the principles that the outlines for a cost share formula could be discussed Bruce Newell: And then once we kind of know what the costs are and what the revenues are and then we could actually in what the principles are that govern us fitting the one to the other Bruce Newell: Then, then at that point, we could we could actually come up with a formula right now. It’s clear from earlier discussion that we’re not completed agreement about Bruce Newell: The weather, the services applied all about, you know, Bruce Newell: Whether we haven’t discussed whether we can increase, you know, cost to libraries, whether we should give small libraries, a break. You know those sort of fundamental principles. Once there, once they are agreed upon, then it’s much, much easier to take and formulated Bruce Newell: A formula that will that will work for everyone. At this point, we don’t know what the parameters are. And I think we could explore the parameters without actually engaging in the arduous task of coming up with the formula Jennie Stapp: And your point earlier Bruce I think that conversation also involves cost versus value Bruce Newell: To others Susie Mcintyre: So I, I just wanted to say that Susie Mcintyre: Cara led a couple big efforts around. I mean, we, I was on a car share formula committee and we did do a lot of conversation and my big my big head shake for know is not that I don’t want to be involved in that. I don’t want to leave that Susie Mcintyre: So I am very interested in having that discussion and and I think it would be good, you know, to look historically at the work that’s been done Susie Mcintyre: Because I feel like we had a lot of really good conversations, but there was just such a split that we couldn’t come to a place Susie Mcintyre: Of agreement Susie Mcintyre: About your memory Kara Orban, Cara: Yes i i think that that that group. I think they met in the fall of 2018 and they came up with actually a pretty solid set of general guidelines for what makes a good formula in terms of its flexibility, adaptability Orban, Cara: equitable distribution of costs. It was coming down to the sort of Orban, Cara: When we looked at the actual budget and our projected five year costs and when people saw what Orban, Cara: That would look like in real life. It was hard to come to an agreement on yes that’s fair for me or or that’s fair for this set of small libraries or so, actually, at some point you have to commit to Orban, Cara: A set like some kind of formula that somebody is going to be unhappy with and kind of agreeing on like Orban, Cara: Where to draw that line. So that was Orban, Cara: And a lot of it. What I’m. What I mean to say is that that a lot of it comes down to this kind of idea of scarcity and like we can only afford so much and we can’t add anything else on because we’re just barely scraping by as it is Orban, Cara: And and the formula, I think, is sensitive because of that sort of sense of we we pay this amount. And that’s what we’ve always paid and we can’t really budge too far from that Orban, Cara: There’s sort of a rigidity that I think is tied to scarcity and so trying to totally break that apart and rebuild it is kind of curious for that reason Bruce Newell: And where the current formula came from was for new things libraries had to be able to afford it to seem reasonable. So that was sort of a slightly soft measure Bruce Newell: And for libraries that they had been receiving they had to pay no more than they were currently paying preferably less. So that was a fairly simple thing. There were just two things that we worried about. And because of that, we were able to craft formula that that worked Bruce Newell: Moderate moderately well for Bruce Newell: How many years, is it still being used Jennie Stapp: At this sheer Kellogg model as your formula is largely unchanged Jennie Stapp: All of those years ago Jennie Stapp: And then there’s a separate crusher formula for my ego Bruce Newell: So this is one of the things that makes me feel that we’re at sort of this this point we’ve we have we have stepped out of being we stepped into our teenage years, maybe not have a completely mature

Bruce Newell: Formulation for what this thing looks like whatever this thing is it’s MLM thing but but but we’re no longer we’re no longer at the beginning Bruce Newell: We’re somewhere between the beginning in sort of a more sort of enduring mature form of this, whatever that is Bruce Newell: And so our task is to the indication that is true, is because the, the cost share formula no longer fits comfortably and that’s one. That’s one indication that so so Bruce Newell: To me, I don’t mean to be overly pragmatic and Pollyanna but so you know so we know what the problem is. So we’ll just figure it out. We’re librarians Bruce Newell: There they were simpler times and we had just 17 libraries Bruce Newell: In the sharing catalog and there wasn’t such a thing like the Montana library to go. Those are simpler times Bruce Newell: And there were great times, but now we have more complicated times, but my god you know all this great fiction and nonfiction is available to me. I made my phone away. We didn’t have phones, then. So, so, you know, we gotta step up to these changes and just make accommodation Tracy Cook: Any other final thoughts or questions from the group Tracy Cook: Do you want me to share the agenda. Good, Jenny Tracy Cook: I think we’ve kind of worked through a lot of the next steps Tracy Cook: I captured. I hope everyone’s questions we need to answer what we want to know Tracy Cook: What we want to communicate and the timeline Tracy Cook: And I will try to pull together a document that better summarizes everything Jennie Stapp: And again, if anybody is able to join me tomorrow at the website chat if you Jennie Stapp: Would be much appreciated. I think the zoom link for that is available Jennie Stapp: Through our calendar Jennie Stapp: And then the next meeting of the Commission is December night. So that will be the next opportunity to condition us to talk about these ideas together Jennie Stapp: Is there any public comments Jennie Stapp: Or any other business or announcements Jennie Stapp: All right you guys worked very, very, very hard today obviously many more discussions to come. But thank you so much for bearing with us and sharing your great thoughts and ideas and suggestions and worries and concerns there certainly nothing like me Bruce Newell: Yes, thank you very much. And just to echo Jenny Bruce Newell: Please do chime in tomorrow and also feel free to join us on the Commission meeting when this is discussed Bruce Newell: And if you have, if you have thoughts about this share them with Jenny, or with Tracy, or with myself and I’ll copy them and they’ll copy me and we’ll take your take your thoughts forward Jennie Stapp: All right. Thank you, everybody ready to turn Tracy Cook: Thanks