CRISPR-Cas9, Gene Editing & Malaria with Kak Riza Putranto [with Indonesian subtitles/text]

hi welcome to cyanklapodia this is why i talk about science in everyday life i dedicate this podcast to kids and their whole family to enjoy and anyone who wants to listen from a kid’s perspective enjoy hello everyone today i have a very very special guest i’m here with kat usa pat wizard is a scientist in molecular biology and he got his phd in university of montpellier in france that is that that says that’s in france like france is a good place to study and he’s also an influencer on instagram and he tells you how to be a good scientist always i also love to share on his instagram about how to educate people about covert 19 it’s very very very informative i looked at it and then it’s like so cool because like the graphics are cool the explanation is cool yeah and it’s it’s really really exciting so yeah so georgia say hello to carl raza kat visa how are you hello rainer i’m fine i’m fine and how are you i’m fine but it’s like 10 a.m in the morning i’m like and i just woke up at like seven or six something like i had like three hours to prepare and i just yeah i was like getting ready so yeah so how is in bogor yes i i’m living currently in bogor in indonesia as you are saying that there is uh 10 a.m in the morning in bogor now it’s actually around 5 p.m in the almost evening here also it’s like seven hour difference yes seven hour difference so is it 7 22 it is 7 22 exactly yes you are correct yeah so let me just talk about science because this is sancleopodia so i just want to talk about when was the first time you did science and why did you choose crispr to study about well thank thank you first of all thank you rainer for inviting me to come to your encyclopedia it’s it’s been an honor for me and i’m so glad to meet you finally and we can talk about crispr and your first question when did you first time did i do science actually i always have an admiration for science since i was seven years old when i was a bit older than you are and i had many questions about nature exactly so i think that was drive my curiosity about biology and then ever since i i fell in love inside with science and especially i i love doing biology and when i grow older among many of science subjects that i would like to do as i’m saying to you about biology in editing becomes one of my favorites i love the idea of gene editing meaning that to drive the change in living things we only need to to to do a small edit just inside the gene and the genome then you have differences that that can change the organisms how they behave and even so if we will talk about this later about uh curing disease in human yeah yeah and uranus what do you love most about biology do you love biology so i just love biology because when i was eating my food and i got choked i thought that and there was some sort of you know my i suffered this i thought there was like some sort of thing and if i tilt backwards the food will dive into a pound and then i’ll show i was like so like it was interesting and i and i thought different things about the body and i had no answers until i just until i got my biology book and then it’s exciting because i like studying microbiology because i like tiny animals just look at your hands okay just like millions only maybe trillions of billions of cells inside like one square centimeter of your hand it’s like like so big that’s so cool um lizab why do you choose to study crispr was a glitch i don’t think so oh

so zombies why do you choose crispr to study about why did you want to learn about crispr is it because that you want to know about gene editing it’s 40 signal oh uh did you get disconnected yeah i think so i got disconnected since of five minutes i think five minutes okay less than less than yeah so by the time you got disconnected i was asking you about why do you choose to study crispr is it because that you study about editing dna and then you wanted to study crispr yes because uh among many science subjects that i would like to do so chin editing is becomes one of my favorite because i love the idea of the gene editing meaning that you drive a change in living things but we all only need a small change that small change can drive so many changes and then i ask you about biology right and you like biology and you explain about microbiology and uh and yeah it’s i think it’s is the thing that uh that drive uh my curiosity as well as your driving curiosity about microbiology yeah so so it’s really exciting if you are interested in one thing and then there’s actually something that can actually that is connected to the interest then you want to do it so um do you know what is the crispr cat’s name how does crisper work so those of you who don’t know what crispr is don’t get confused because i’m going to tell you so crispr means that it’s a system that’s found in bacteria which is basically an immune system to make immunity against bacteriophages which try to invade the lack of virus of bacteria so i explained more about this in my community podcast which you can search on in youtube so for that like for the virus injects the dna there’s a protein what’s the protein called using like cows protein yeah caspase-9 yes the cas9 protein puts the virus together into the bacterial dna and then because 9 copies another piece of that dna and when it finds the same virus and then it and then it finds the same thing then it’s going to well oh this is the one enough that it just destroys the the dna yeah yes you’re correct yeah actually the crispr as you mentioned is yes originated from bacteria and now we use this technology to edit the gene or genomes in human animals and even plants so oh the goal is try to edit the the small changes in the chin and the chino so that you have a global change in the organism for example if you want an april to change color not red but green you can just edit the gene that is responsible to the change of the color from red to green and then the change is not that you has to destroy all of the gene but only to edit just one tiny bit part of this gene and then the chin can transform expressing not the right color but the green color so that is crisper right now it’s very advanced yeah but what does crispr stand for i remember some of it but it’s like clustered regularly interspace short panoramic repeats so exactly exactly increase it to like one two three four three four five five six one yeah six yeah because yes yeah i’m studying cluster regulatory interspace good pandomic repeat is so hard to say so i say yeah i’m studying this point way easier yeah yes but you mentioned it and you you spell it really rapidly clustered regularly interspace or palindromic beans do you know why reiner why why crispr called crispr clustered regularly in the space shop but in germany repeats is that because maybe you can imagine is that because the sequence of the gene has been repeated several times so that is why cluster is clustered because it’s in one place regularly so regularly it’s been interspaced area you have interspace of the sequence right and palindromic means that the sequence is repeated the same sequence and they call it repeats

so the same sequence yeah stem sequence repeat it was and it’s it is still the immune system of a bacteria against viruses that is why they call it crispr not a question but rainer i i think i have yeah yeah but i think i have one question for you do you know that crispr was founded by the scientists in 1987 it was a long time ago 30 years ago 33 years ago to be exact and you weren’t born at that time right even me yes even me i was just a six years old kid the scientists discovered this motif that we call crispr inside the bacteria maybe you know this bacteria because you like you love microbiology yeah you do you know bacteria called esterizia choline what is acetylcholine bacteria inside our guts oh yeah um but e coli bacteria e coli exactly e coli e coli carries the motif of crispr and it was founded by a scientist in 1987 33 years ago but not until yeah but not until 2012 that this technology modified exactly harnessed and modified by the scientists and used to be the new technology that we use today even i use it in my laboratory nowadays isn’t it cool right it’s a it’s very interesting yeah now we can get it from the bacteria use it to defend themselves but now we can use it to like genetically edit plants to be resistant to global warming and all other stuff exactly yes these are other questions and why can’t cells in why can we implant crispr into cells that were like immune to corona virus like something like that yeah i think it’s a good uh idea we can do it actually we can do it the the problem is yes we can do it we can actually with this technology we can do almost any edit or any genetic engineering that we are never thinking about before because it’s just a tiny bit of package that we call crispr and gasoline it’s a package right it’s very very small and you can just inject it into a cell and it will edit anything that you put signature on it because it has signature for example if they have a red signature here they will go into the red part of the genome right it will go like this and then cut and then you will have a change of something of a gene gin that may be responsible of your sickness and you can you cannot get sick for example if you edit the gene that can receive coronavirus you edit this gene that the gene cannot be expressed and then the coronal virus cannot infect you that is any imagination also from the the world scientists and it is possible to do it it’s just need time to do it and then we need to be able to validate it because it’s when you edit something you have to be responsible for it brainerd become a scientist we all must be responsible of what we are doing so we must do it right i think you agree with that oh yeah but that’s really good because if you want to make people like how you might make them have like stronger immune systems sunday it’s like worse immune system that’s your responsibility to fix it back it’s not their other people’s responsibilities so um yeah whatever name i know them but maybe render do you know them no i don’t know them by like person but i know the names okay i will i will i will mention it for you the first one is my favorite scientist lady a very humble one called dr jennifer doudna yeah from united states of america and then the other one is a a french lady emmanuel charpentier right did i spell it correctly yeah yeah and do you know them yeah do you do you know these two ladies before well even if you read it from uh from i don’t know magazines or or something else

i read it from the article that you gave me about crispr and the malaria thing that two scientists named jennifer donna and emmanuel happened here discovered crispr which could end malaria yeah that could end malaria right because crispr and cas9 right now for example in one disease do you know do you know the disease called malaria right or are you uh afraid of mosquito rainer you do you don’t like mosquito or or everything is fine with you with mosquitoes uh mom like extremely scared when i see peaches of mosquito and then then you just go from like i’m not like this i’m like so scared yeah yeah we know you know we know that we know that not all mosquitoes are bad because only few of them species are bad because yeah yes because they bring diseases for example malaria so malaria is has been a very very widespread disease especially in uh in africa and also in southeast asia especially also in indonesia you know that because with malay with malaria we are very very uh concerned about this it’s a disease that that very still having a major impact in this world so you know that i can i will explain to you about maybe in in five minutes explain to you about how nature always has a way on its balance right for example we talk about crispr and malaria if you try to perform a huge change in organisms such as bacteria animals plants and also humans the greater the change as i mentioned to you the courage their nature will resist it’s always back to its balance so crispr yeah crispr is trying to change but containing the balance of of the nature so i brought this pen see radar for a disease to be happen malaria for example it needs the connection between the human this is the human and also the pathogen which is mosquito bringing also the parasite inside the mosquito so you need to go like this to be able to malaria happen the human part and also the male the the mosquito part crispr by the friends or our colleague scientists from uk they added a gene for example this is a bunch of a paper let’s call it this gene and then you edit the gene from the mosquito right here and then when you bring the mosquito to the human part you cannot you cannot connect and then the disease is not happening so this is what the scientists nowadays doing with malaria instead of giving people a drugs which is sometimes very dangerous for the health and also dangerous for the patient yeah exactly they change the gene inside the mosquito so that the mosquito cannot bring the disease into the human don’t you find it interesting right yeah yeah that was like really interesting because like because i like your explanation of like the the gene that’s blocks it yeah that night you blame the mosquitoes if they it’s not actually their fault there’s um a pathogen called plasmodium which controls the brain which controls the mosquito target atlas so it’s not a mistake and only like a few species transmit malaria and only the females can buy exactly only the females that can buy so they change the gene right you change the gene on the of on the mosquitoes populations so that the mosquito population cannot create a female one because only the female that can deliver you the disease but if you eliminate the female one and always you meet a mosquito uh only only a male mosquito so the disease will never happen so that is actually the goal of crispr that we use today on going to malaria eradication and that is a i think a brilliant idea that has uh emerged in amongst the scientists to be able to contain malaria because malaria is very dangerous rainer

especially in asia and in southeast asia and also in africa so there’s basically like two ways you can prevent malaria you can either decrease the females and turn them into males or you can prevent give the mosquitoes immunity to plasmodium so there’s two ways and if you use the two there’s going to be like hardly anything and what i mean by genetically modified them to like their plasmodium i mean not just one i’m like there’s two mosquitoes made and one of them is genetically modified then if they make together it’s going to be half of their population will be genetically modified and half of them not going to be genetically modified so we need to have both of the parents genetically modified so that there’s gonna be like a 99.5 percent chance five percent yes yes that is going to be like genetically modified it’s like cool it’s extremely cool because like it’s so high 99.5 there’s like barely any chance that you’ll get yeah not genetically modified so cool yeah it’s it’s so cool because uh because the approach uh using crispr and cast nine has been implemented since uh 2013 i think and it takes uh seven years now 2020. takes seven years to perfected the technique of critical cast 9 to improve how we face the problem of malaria and that is a research drainer research needs time and needs intelligence behind it and needs tools and one of the tools that we talked about today is christopher and cass9 yeah yeah sukkot riza how can crispr help us and why is it important to study crispr yeah crispr can help us because it’s revlon refugenize the approach on genetic engineering in general not only in plants not only in humans not only in animals or bacteria even but everything changes because of crispr why because before we have to bring other genes from other species inside up inside the target organism to be changed the target organisms and then we can see differences in the behavior and phenotype and morphology etc and that is dangerous that is dangerous why because you have this foreign gene to be inserted in the gene that doesn’t belong to its origin so it can cause some abomination some changes that you don’t want that’s why people are afraid of genetic modified organism but crispr did not account it has the gmo or genetic modified organism it is what it is because you don’t put a gene or a foreign gene inside the target organism but you only added the g that is already inside your organism so you can you only add it to be able to make these genes perform better or to eliminate the genes that you think creating a disease inside the organism so that is why crispr can help us many things diseases like malaria thalassemia major disease implants like fungal infections and then maybe someday we can or maybe in the near future we can use this to eliminate sarskoff too perhaps the imagination of scientists is large as uh as the uh universe so you can imagine anything to be able to be able to perform a research on it and then using crispr and cas9 i think almost everything is possible yeah so yes like crispr is like really exciting because you can genetically modify and then before the techniques were expensive dangerous so so imagine you’re buying a toy so imagine a kid wanted to buy this puppy okay enough yeah just stayed still enough that it was expensive but it didn’t be good so if it’s expensive you’d expect hey it has to be good quality but then it’s not that good but if we change into a moving talking pocket then like this so hello and then it’s going to be higher quality but crisper for this time it’s lower price

so yeah so it’s better so this is crisper and this is like this it’s like yeah yeah one before and this that could not its head is crisper so yes cool yeah it’s very it’s very cool yeah you you put it very right with that puppets because crisper is actually cheaper than the previous technology less dangerous than before and then it can move forward into a good genetic engineering without having creating an abomination species meaning that you have a species of chimeric like tumeric is like a monster you don’t like it because if people are afraid of the ancient technology before crispr then they cannot they don’t they they don’t believe in the technology and they don’t want to use the products after for example people don’t want to eat apple apple fruit that has been genetically modified but maybe people want to eat apple fruit that been edited using crispr just to change the sweetness for example so you you found april to sweet and then you change it using crispr and it becomes less sweet and then you will you like it more maybe people will eat it because it can it is edited using crisper without a with less danger on it yeah so but i got something when i listened to a conversation about jennifer delna and then another professor i don’t know where is but he graduated from harvard yeah oxford and uh so yeah so so when he talked he asked how about the risks why what if people and want want to use it but they use it for a bad thing but what if people want to use it for a good thing like agriculture and like yeah but what if bad guys want to rob a bank and then they can’t lift up all the diamonds and then they want to genetically modify crispr to to make them like a superhuman and then they can lift up the diamonds lift up buildings so yeah so so it’s not about how crispr can do it it’s about what they will use without crispr yes with the with the technology like crispr as you mentioned rainer we face yeah see we’re faced with the problem of uh kindness right you you can have a good technology but if it falls to the wrong hands they can use it into a bad for bad things but in international sciences agreed upon what we call bioethics or your ethic is like the regulations that promote how to use crispr on a good site not on the bedside and if people decided to use on the bedside they will be get punished they will get what they deserve so we have this kind of regulations that can keep us safe of using crispr gas none without passing the boundaries that we we must not pass yes most like i’m so nothing chris but it’s like some sort of tool that can create you god enough that you want to become god and after that you can duplicate that tool and then you can duplicate that for life bad people and then the bad people can become like a bad god and after the bad god will do bad stuff and then the good god will do good stuff so so it’s not about if you want to do it it’s not about if you want to do it it’s about how will you change humanity if the crispr falls into the wrong hands then what will you do as a punishment mr punishment enough will they keep on doing it is the punishment severe enough so that they will just something like like if they have some thing where they can stop using crispr and then they get banned from crispr and then there’s some sort of card which after scan for like to apply for crisper and then if they get caught using crisper and then they’re actually doing bad stuff then they they they negative heart gets delayed now that we can’t use crispr anymore yeah yeah i think you’re right there’s a there is a several people that would willing to do a bad thing using frispa but gladly all of scientists agree that if you found to do such bad thing then they will take away your license of as a scientist and you can be banned for good etc and i think if people want to think it carefully

about the bioethics they will do it right because every technology that we have today rainer is we have this for the good of the mankind not for the bed of the man can we we have this technology to change our life to change our our daily life to be able to have it uh better than before yeah so so we’ve talked a lot but but i just want to know because i’ve asked this question a lot of time it’s about why is he have a dream for kids and what do you what what is your suggestion for kids who want to study about crispr because i i i’ve kept on asking this question because it’s different people different answers so we can find out what different people say so what yeah yes thank you for the questions it’s a common question but it’s very important for you to ask me because i’m very happy to answer this it is very very important to have dreams for kids not only kids for everybody yeah for everybody right i can answer this quite simply why dreams give you purposes right and purposes give you passion and passion when you have it you can achieve anything this is not just only a sentence but it’s a very powerful sentence i do have a dream and that is why since i was a kid i’ve always wanted to be a scientist the one in the laboratory right the one laboratory pipetting etc using a gun using a googles and lab coats and now i am a scientist but i still do have a dream brainer i dream that people are willing to acknowledge science as part of their life because i also teach no brainer maybe if you uh know this i teach as a professor in university also so i want my teaching to be able to wake the patient sorry the passion of science amongst my students and i think that is a very important thing to be able to make it useful of our knowledge and then when what we do and i i i am curious rainer and you what what is actually your dream if you grow if you are grown up yeah i’ve changed my dream a lot in a few podcasts so i feel um we’re going to actually find out my dream you should listen to my podcast but uh it’s just really hard to decide because i love space yeah yes i love almost every single time but i like biology i like physics like chemistry i like so there’s a lot of things i like to do but you might just say for now this may not be in the next podcast but i like to study biology hmm right yes but actually what or what what are you what were you saying is that you love science in general you love space you know what i love space too i’m working as a biologist right you can have many many of a passion about science but one day you might have to choose one of profession about science if you love this and you will ever work with this passion of science in the future you can have you can be able to for example you can be a molecular biologist but it is not forbidden for you to love space also you can be an astronaut but you can be also a biologist both the site and and working together and bringing you yeah yeah bringing you a good uh passion to move forward yeah so it’s like really exciting to have a dream when the powerful worlds are like they just speak out a lot so yeah yeah exciting so yeah yeah i think that yeah and it’s happened sorry reina i i remind you that today it happens that today in indonesia is the young day it is the yacht day the youth day and in basa we call it hari the youth pledge day so our message today what we just discussed about dreams and about passions is very important not only for both of us but also my message and you maybe deliver this message to other young generations to have dream it is very important to have dream

because dreams can make our lives better right if our lives better we can make our countries better also right do you agree my queen wow that’s like really really really awesome because i said because if our dreams our dreams change our country and our country can improve like um imagine like someone might just see the puppet again he’s running an electricity thing and then it’s like selling dreams and then the dreams are being sent to like some sort of green brick construction and then imagine the country and then imagine a house is a country and then he’s sending the dreams he gives the dreams on to the the base of the country where he builds a country by dreams yeah that’s really exciting because like dreams yeah yeah and dreams is the foundation of everything if you don’t have a dream you don’t have passion right passions if you don’t have passions you don’t change anything so the first thing that you need to do you you must be able to dream something because it’s free rainer we we don’t we don’t pay for our dream we we dream it freely so we have freedom to dream so we can dream whenever we want what wait we can do whatever we want whenever we want and however we want it yes it makes sense yeah that’s that’s the first thing that you need to do dream about it first and then you do it the work with passions and then you will get something and then when you get something you feel it very achieve etc and then suddenly you did maybe you we won’t realize about it but we already changed something if we don’t change anything in front of us at least we change our mindset the way we think right the way we think and we can influence other with kindness with good with science to be able to put their dream into reality i think that is the the main message today that uh that you know from the question that you asked me yeah that’s like really really exciting so would you like to end the podcast or you have any other questions because yeah you have any other questions yeah maybe um one last questions maybe if you can imagine uh rainer if you can achieve anything what is the one thing that you want to achieve oh that’s a hard thing i’d like to achieve there’s one thing i’d like to achieve i’d like to achieve i’m doing science and then i like doing like my hundred podcasts in san clemente and i’d like doing um 100 podcasts and then on the 100th podcast i could do like something special like i could have like a podcast where what what topic would you like you could have like a topic where we could talk about biology and then for biology we could invite everyone who talks about biology and then we have like some sort of zoom meeting where we can talk yeah yeah it’s it’s going to be very interesting if you if you can put that together and it’s a very i cannot wait also to see it because uh you can meet many people and you can talk with different mind right brilliant minds and then we can have sort of exchanges and that can help you also rainer to to grow as a as someone who loves science so so i’m going to call that the ultra podcast i’ve been talking that to my auto podcast yeah then we could invite more about space like we couldn’t by cutting we can invite folks we could invite like more people yeah so it’s really exciting so thank you for being in my podcast i really appreciate because yeah because um before when i was like six years old like five years old and i was five years old i created um some sort of video called crisp tasting and i used uh like some sort of paper and i created drawings and i said and the bachelor was happy because of this because he found the dna that it’s like and it’s like i just like being crisper and then it’s fun this was fun yeah well well thank you for inviting me

also rayner is very happy to to talk to you and discuss to you about uh crispr today it was a very interesting talk that we have i’m i’m quite inside i’m quite excited also to move forward on my research to go on about as many as a crispr approach as possible but like so like um before i say bye i just want to say why would you like to continue this podcast yeah what what to be about like the next one because i’ve done a comeback podcast which i thought like i say it’s a comeback because we talked about america once and then again so what was the next topic that you would like next time you come back yeah if we do a comeback we might be talking about maybe different type of crispr because we talked about crispr today is the basic one right it’s already the beginning of the understanding of crispr maybe we can discuss about yes basic slightly complex complex extremely complex and not extremely complex to say until we can learn about crispr yeah maybe we can discuss about crispr in in the virus or maybe in crispr in the bacteria the system that belongs to the bacteria returns to the bacteria and then we can see how it how it goes so don’t say bye because we talk too so so bye cat riza i’m so happy and i’m just so cheerful talking about crispr bye bye bye thank you i’ll see you in the next podcast bye