Panel | Alternative Energy

to begin by introducing miss desha wat she’s currently the deputy assistant secretary of state for implementation in the Bureau of energy resources where she has served since October 2011 previously she was senior adviser and chief of staff to the special envoy for Eurasian energy immediately prior to that she’s also served as the energy policy advisor in the department’s economic bureau where she focused on energy security issues for Europe and Central Asia in 2010-2011 this was including the period following the Fukushima nuclear disaster ms.neish wat served as a council on foreign relations fellow and Japan where she conducted energy and economic policy research evaluating us and Asian energy policies that wasn’t enough earlier in her career miss nessa wat was chief of staff of policy and planning at the Office of the Director of National Intelligence where she worked on internationals energy security issues including nuclear power and non-proliferation issues she’s also served on the US Presidential Commission on intelligence capabilities regarding weapons of mass destruction where she led the North Korea policy steering committee a former US military excuse me a former US Army military intelligence officer she served consecutive tours in Afghanistan and Iraq mr. Schwab thank you good morning everyone we’re so pleased to have each and every one of you here today at the Department of State as we also celebrate war world energy day and national energy action month today we want to focus a little bit on clean energy initiatives here in the US as well as internationally as my introducer said I’m with the Bureau of energy resources and it was it’s fairly new we’re now in our second year of operation and basically this was in response to our quadrennial diplomacy and development review to basically identify and assess diplomatic and programmatic efforts on energy resources governance issues especially in the face of a changing global global market as many of you know the the world is indeed a midst of a global energy revolution and for the first time ever energy demand is being led by developing countries outside of the OECD we’re also seeing a revolution in supply the development unconventional energy here in North America as well as these shifts seeing basically a dramatic impact on the world’s energy landscape and we’re going to get to some of those questions shortly but I just want to highlight real quickly the energy sector here in the US is going through certainly going through a renaissance as new technologies and innovations shape the market we’re becoming much more energy self-sufficient due to dramatic increases in the production of clean natural gas for example advancements in energy efficiency and new investments in renewables and nuclear power we’re reducing emissions while increasing production of domestic energy resources and that does include oil and gas as well as renewables in fact in 2012 carbon dioxide emissions from the energy sector fell to the lowest levels in almost two decades that same year us net oil imports fell to the lowest I’m sorry did fall to the lowest of 20 years but also we became the world’s leading producer of natural gas so part of this is a result of doubling America’s deployment of energy sources such as wind solar geothermal energy and increasing demand side of energy efficiency which will again we’ll talk about in a little bit so and we also look at the establishment of the toughest fuel economy standards basically in our history while also trying to create jobs and boosting our economy building new industries and reducing again dangerous carbon pollution that contributes to climate change today our panel here will take a look at some of the domestic policies and implementation of alternative and renewable energy technologies that spurred the rapid growth in the energy sector and assesses challenges as well as opportunities for continued progress in the years ahead so I’m joined today by us clean energy experts from both the public and private sector first I’d like to introduce Todd Foley who is our senior vice president of policy and government relations at a core which is the American Council on renewable energy acore is a nonprofit dedicated to building a secure and prosperous America with clean renewable energy by providing an educational platform convening thought leadership forms forging partnerships and communicating the

benefits of renewable energy second is JC Sandburg he is the director of global government affairs and policy for renewables at GE and lastly Jonathan Pershing who before joining the department of energy as the deputy assistant secretary for climate change policy and technology was here in Foggy Bottom as the US Deputy special envoy for climate change dr. Pershing is widely recognized for his work on international climate change architecture including the creation of a post Kyoto Protocol climate change environment so welcome gentlemen and thank you for joining us what I like to do is I’ll open up with a few questions in each of you can speak and then there will be a couple that I will orientate specifically to your portfolio’s the first question I’d like to pose is really just to talk about what we’re experiencing as I mentioned earlier this energy revolution with particularly with developing nations that is spurring much of the demand for energy we look at the Western Hemisphere for example driving production of oil and natural gas how do you all see this changing both the domestic and global energy landscape overall Jonathan if you would like to start first that’d be fine sure thanks very much Julia it’s also a great pleasure to be back at the State Department I’ve enjoy the chances to have a chat with people who are working on the international side I’m devoting a lot of my time right now to domestic policy so it’s useful to have both pieces come back in and in some sense it’s actually fitting to have a question like this here at the State Department because the structure is very much an international one that it states in fact has seen a relatively flat picture in its own energy demand the growth has been very much a global growth and in fact if you take a look at it some of the key emerging economies are the places that we focus so if you think about where China was I began doing for example the climate change negotiations in 1989 and at that point China was less than one-tenth the size nited states and its energy was commensurately small and if you take a look at it now Chinese emissions by 2020 are projected to be twice as large as those of the u.s. so you just think about the grade of growth that’s associated with a rate of demand of power demand for transport demand across the board for energy services it’s not a bad thing it also comes with development it comes with a better quality of life it comes with the welfare benefits that attached energy provision and supply and to me the question really is not so much as where the growth coming from and where’s the supply coming from but how do you manage it at the moment we’re having a hard time managing it some countries have done pretty well and it states it too bad we’ve actually got wellesley clean air we’ve got relatively clean water it comes when the power goes on and you don’t really have to think about it you go to China and you’ve all seen the pictures you go to Indonesia you’ve seen the pictures in Jakarta some of you live in these places you go to some of the cities and the remind you of what Los Angeles was in the 1970s but a factor of 10 worse because they have a factor of ten more people those kinds of dynamics are driving us at the local level and the global level and they offset the benefits of increased coal increased oil increased gas and even some the increases in renewable power that we’re all striving to remote as part of a clean energy picture yeah I’m Todd Foley with a core a pleasure to be here that you could do good to see everybody in you Jonathan especially as well as we’ve talked up about a love these domestic and international issues here in India and domestically I would just add to it to do it jonathan is saying then that is that there is tremendous excitement about about energy generally you do the tremendous of progress we’ve seen in technology and I mean technology across even for the extraction industries when you think of oil and gas you think about fracking and other things that are opening up access to all kinds of new areas that previously weren’t either available or economic I would just add however as much as and oil development is in the news and there’s excitement about it we’re equally as excited about what’s happening in renewable energy the technology progress in the progress we’ve seen across our sector is it I would even argue is even more exciting we’ve seen in the last five years a tremendous cost reduction in solar and wind and the other technologies and this is this is changing everything you know we’ve seen solar costs come down eighty percent in the last five years we’ve seen wind come down and forty percent over the last five years the good news is that’s going to continue because we’ve see there’s lots of room for continued cost reduction especially since this costs have come down before we’ve actually truly scaled up renewable energy still most places around the world a small portion of overall power supply but it’s growing fast so we’ve got tremendous opportunity to grow that going forward and I think it actually portends really you know good things for a note not only here in the US but internationally in the developing world

because well there is a as we know there as the is the other countries around the world develop as the economies progress we’re going to need more and more energy the good news is these these renewable energy technologies are cost-competitive with conventional sources and in fact let’s say here in the US in areas in the mid west wind is being bitten cheaper than natural gas look up mid americans doing in the midwest in the some of the Southwest states solar’s being bit in than everything else including coal and natural gas so these technologies are cost competitive and as we go forward I think they can play even a much greater role going forward so I think it’s and this is all a reflection of a number of key drivers that have taken place in the market you know we see these the renewable energy companies very much focus on improving their products and services reducing costs coming at it from every direction imaginable to get overall cost of these systems down but we’ve also seen this as a result of some good policy you know here in the US over the last number of years we’ve had I think in the readable energy space a great example of federalism where we have important tax credits I think that most of us know about ITC and ptc which have been important motivators of capital and investment here complemented by a number of state reno energy standards so you have a demand signal at the state level and you have some important fiscal instruments that help lower the cost of systems and this is what has enabled us to scale up renewable energy development here in the US coupled with what the industry has been doing help lower costs dramatically and I think just going forward here in the US we’re at this point where we do need to think about where we go from here we’ve had years of experience on on the tax credits and the rps is you know what’s next I think on the international side it’s truly a global market global industry that this cost reduction that’s taken place that we benefited from here in the US is also evident elsewhere around the world in fact in some places like Germany led there so these are this pertains really great stuff for the future especially renewable so whereas there’s a energy transformation taking place but renewables I think are very much part of that I would I would build on that and I would say from a manufacturing perspective so from a general electric perspective I think that the US continues to be with the exception of 2013 where we kind of had boom bust for the production tax credit continues to be one of the biggest markets in the world especially when we say GE renewables we’re talking mainly about wind and some solar solar kind of suffers from oversupply and really kind of super hyper focused markets i think as Todd mentioned so from the wind perspective I think that we’ve seen kind of this uncertainty surrounding the production tax credit has heard things now the start of construction language that came at the end of 2012 is really going to push a big market in 2014 and into 2015 but what it’s caused a company like General Electric to do is to actually look overseas and that it’s been a blessing and a curse there are kind of stable policy regimes that we think in Western Europe Northern Europe to a lesser extent in the southern part of Europe anymore some of these other places Eastern Europe a mixed bag but for the emerging markets what we’re seeing is a push for what we call localization which is it’s it’s a it’s a difficult position for manufactured global manufacturers to be and because essentially as you understand what the emerging markets is investment in country for manufacturing and that doesn’t always make sense for a variety of reasons size of the market cost of doing business in a place maybe the regulatory structures and so GE likes to do what we call global supply chain we like to be able to source and whether it’s in the United States whether it’s in China India wherever that be to bring costs down and sometimes that’s difficult we have made a localization investment in a country like Brazil because we see a long term or long term sustainable market and a more stable policy regime but even that comes with its drawbacks as we see Brazil does auctions and as you all know that’s intended to push the price down cost of localization is up and so you hope that you never get to that place where you’re flipped and I think there was some concern about three or four months ago that that might have been the case the last couple of auctions the price has come back up and everyone’s breathed again but i would say that those are the things that we look for is we look to move outside the united states where i think next year about fifty percent of our revenue will come from outside the united states fantastic thank you thank you this next question is your towards Jonathan here you’re familiar many of you would be the president’s all-of-the-above energy strategy basically calling for a comprehensive policy in the development of alternatives on renewables energy efficient technologies as well as domestic oil and gas production however many are saying these days that the low

cost and abundant supply of natural gas for example is pretty much offsetting the transition to renewable sources both in the US as well as internationally how do we create a policy that can promote an alternative energy source such as natural gas for example without undermining the transition to renewables as well as trying to keep the cost low for consumers basically having that affordability thanks very much I think that there’s a couple of parameters and contexts that one has to think about when you think about any energy policy I think the way we the administration are thinking about it is it does this is not one solution it’s not a question of saying natch gasps is the answer for everybody in every case at every point in time rather what you say is that there are a variety of different choices and they feel different market niches and what we really want to do is have certain parameters to our energy infrastructure and our energy system that we appreciate and you can list them fairly simply there’s actually widespread agreement I would argue United States over these parameters so what are they include they included the energy system has to work it has to provide for transport it has to provide for light and for heat and for motive power and if it doesn’t it’s not doing its job doesn’t matter if you have a fabulous source that’s perfect in some dimension and it doesn’t do the reliability side it’s got to be clean it’s got to increasingly be cleaner than it ever used to be we’ve got a commitment as a nation to clean up our energy system and that means every part of it Dennis put on the screen little while ago some of the direct impacts you see the air quality ones those are quite immediate we’ve had Clean Air Act standards in place for decades we insist as a nation that our supply has to be clean you gotta be able to breathe the air it’s not good to have energy where the lights go on but you can’t walk through the city it has to also be clean in a longer dimension it’s got to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases and increasingly we’re focusing on that particular question because unless you do it doesn’t matter whether your supply is cheap and reliable it’s creating global problems so there’s a series of parameters that meet those tests we’d also like you to be available locally and buy locally I mean somewhere nited states and sometimes we even mean even more locally than that and we have individual states that think about their parameterization in a much more local context and that’s driven a whole host of different outcomes so in some cases where we have low cost coal that becomes an option and we worry about its emissions and so we’ve set in motion a series of standards which go back decades to control the air quality and increasingly now with our new source standards of the EPA’s put forward to control climate change and that sets you in a gas motion what happens in gas we found massive new developments of gas why in no small measure because 25 years ago 30 years ago now the department of energy invested hugely in directional drilling which meant that from a single pad you could go down and find gas in multiple places with technology so a long term investment is part of that solution and we have massive renewables and I mean across the board some of the early investments made by the deal we laboratory is by private sector actors have fundamentally altered the pathway the Chinese found a way to market it at low cost but it’s often American technology derived here decades ago that drives it so how does that fit into all the above it means you have to have characteristics and there’s no one size that fits all and our objective is to find the ways that you meet the demand that we require nationally and globally meeting local requirements as well as international requirements that meets those characteristics and there is a home for every part of that energy system let’s be very clear the United States is not going to move away from fossil fuels in the next couple of years it won’t happen in that context or to figure out how to make it work and the world equally is not moving away China is heavily based on coal so is India increasingly South Africa you start looking at the availability it meets the security needs of nations the gas reserves that we find in I todate are matched by gas reserves the Asian continent and in fact in Europe how do you think about using those to your economic benefit that’s part of the puzzle while meeting this other part about those characteristics thank you very much JC you alluded to this earlier there’s been a lot of attention given to the idea of crowdsourcing clean energy technologies as communities take matters into their own hands is this a viable method of clean energy financing and do you think it would take hold and also Todd please if you like to elaborate on that as well I think it’s an interesting concept to be honest when we do volume cases and projections it’s not something we think about um because maybe it would get some day drive a market I’m just not sure in the near term that it would and so when we look at doing volume cases let’s take the United States for example we look at unmet RPS demand we

at the production tax credit we look at the can we in certain places beat the avoided cost of gas is taught alluded to in a lot of places where the wind blows it a study enough rate you know who would have ever thought we would see ppas at twenty dollars a megawatt hour for wind and we’re seeing that in some places and so that would be more we look at as opposed to the crowdsourcing which i’m sure is an idea that in some places works it’s just not something that as a company we look at as driving a market in the near term yeah i would just add that there you know the capital markets are in our community in the US and around the world around energy are quite robust but the key point here is the policy signal on young and where and how and so on to invest that capital and that’s I think where we’ve had a number of issues especially around renewable energy because the policies been quite uncertain for a number of years again think about the tax credits here in the US the boom and bust stop and start element to that it’s very much I think worded some significant amendment momentum in the market and even despite that we made tremendous progress but we’re still as I mentioned earlier we’re still at the early phase of deploying these technologies I think in the US the non-hydro renewable energy contributions about five percent now that’s it’s growing fast but when we think about getting to the level here in the US and elsewhere that’s possible that’s even economic it can be huge that we’re going to need huge a much larger sources of private capital to get there and the policy signals really key when we think about the policy signal and leading to the learning to the question you asked Jonathan about what we need a ticket we do need a long-term strategy we need we need to send them to the market a long-term visibility we also need to think about the incentive side and i think that there’s some room for innovation on that front because the the current policies have worked we made huge progress but now we’re can we’re capable of taking in the next level and when you think about that too it’s the regulatory framework that is really key when we think about it’s the power market structure you know what are we competing against is that field level no as we say Thomas Edison who designed our power system more than a hundred years ago would fully recognize today’s power system is still fundamentally the same with the advent of all kinds of new technology whether it’s renewables a smart grid technology all that kind of thing we’re really now entering an area where we could you know really transform things think of cell phones as we all we know we all talk about that a lot but that’s not that in some ways that analogy is appropriate otherwise maybe not but certainly as we can deploy systems at the distributed level and so on but the massive the capital is going to be key here the there are there is there is some legislation that’s been introduced in Congress that that applies to the conventional energy industry that would you know would motivate large amounts of capital even for renewables if it could qualify so that’s important the regulatory framework the playing field will send a long term policy signal to the market as well so these are the policies is core to energy it’s fun it’s not about the free market they were policy sets the playing field in which the free market works people compete we do need to adjust that relative to the development of a whole host of new products and services and technologies just to add in addition to those policy are there any regulatory reforms you think that could help in trying to spur that investment of renewables for example we’re making an investment internally in you know chasing 111b and to a larger extent 111 d and what that’s going to look like from a renewables perspective so I think there are policy regulatory frameworks that can help set a market know the size of that market i think is open to debate and discussion and kind of depends on the age old debate inside the fence vs system wide and what the what that regulatory framework looks like but it is something that we’re watching and that we’re engaging in the debate jonathan globally electricity generation will lead demand and energy growth so followed by the industrial transportation sectors you have also the growth in co2 emissions and this is primarily coming from developing countries how do we balance our priority of expanding energy access for the 1.3 billion p but without electricity with our goals of trying to transform energy production and curbing the emissions and meeting those climate change targets thanks very much I think a lot of people just to follow up one point kind of that was just made for people who don’t know what 111 be in dr those are two sub elements of the Clean Air Act sorry they’re now up for revision the EPA the Environment Protection Agency is contemplating changing some of those standards to incorporate co2 emissions carbon dioxide emissions it is a major component of the policies the president announced as part of the climate action plan in a speech

he made last June and it’s now underway and I think very much would agree it’s the kind of thing which will shape expectations for the investment community and I would put the reason I wanted to go back to it is it to a certain said it helps to answer the question Julia that you’ve just asked very largely it’s a function of what countries want to do it is not clear that you need to have substantially higher costs to have lower co2 it mostly depends what you count if you believe that the consequences of climate change actually lead to damages which the entire scientific community believes then if you don’t count those damages you are under costing the price if you take what the cost of coal is without capture and storage unless it’s being cleaned up and you don’t count air quality and you’re in China you’re not valuing the price it doesn’t mean that it has to cost you more to do that it means you have to think about where the burden is held and developing countries as developed countries can do that and we are seeing when they do do that the benefits accrue to the society it does not mean that for all countries the capacity is available and if you take a look at something called the sustainable energy for all program that was launched a couple of years back on its states as an initial partner in that exercise Carlos Pasqual who’s here at the department who runs the energy and natural resources program here is on the board of that particular group our own Secretary of the Department of Energy is actively involved in that exercise has several objectives one provide access to everybody and we have a huge number who don’t have it to to double the efficiency around the world’s energy supply and 3 to double the renewable capacity we’ve got globally and these are goals that we think can be reached at rowley modest economic cost and then turn on the economy economics in the longer term and we can help we as a nation can help we have the Eid programs we have the overseas private investment programs we have the export-import Bank programs we have the programs of the private sector where investments return actual good returns on those investments all of that’s possible and gives us an outcome and can be done with low co2 emissions and a much better economic welfare thank you one final question and then we’ll be able to open up to the audience for Q sanae’s Todd and JC one of the key components of State Department’s energy policy is promotion of stable growing global markets for the entry of us energy firms how do how does the government how do we over all how can we best provide support and information to companies internationally even seeking to work in developing energy companies is there anything that we could do to be more supportive I think the you know in renewables and as is the case in other energy technology areas uh you know we’re talking about global markets and we’re talking about global industries global businesses I think there’s much that can be shared across the globe that can help promote continued investment and deployment across across the world in areas especially where that makes sense of course so so I think what the State Department can do and I remember talking with Ambassador Pasquale about this when he just started over here at state you know there are a number of we have another good examples of how the policy framework could work here in the US there are number of grated cases around the world including you know Germany Europe and other places to share these best practices and lessons learned i think is a huge advantage and i think especially as countries look to diversify their energy sources you know they can skip a few you know steps along the way of learning and take on board what what is working elsewhere and i think that would be tremendously helpful again most of the the companies are global it’s a global market level industry and the technologies have especially the renewable space broad application from you know thinking big you know wind farms of course and solar power plants to you know putting solar on your roof I remember it before I joined a Korres Oh with a company when we developed some off-grid systems in the Philippines and in in a Vietnam to bring you know the first modern power to these very remote villages difficult to reach but but solar was a huge enabler to to provide lighting basic refrigeration and other basic dates so i think these technologies have broad application but it’s it’s it’s helpful that we share these best practices and then figure out how to get it to the people who need these things i think from a manufacturer’s perspective one of the ways is market intelligence and and without naming countries to practical example another kind of advocacy oriented although not commerce but that we have used to embassies is stability of markets and the US government is able to in some places communicate to foreign governments that certain policy decisions or retroactive decisions hurt foreign direct investment and in any emerging market foreign direct

investment is the lifeblood and so embassies play an important role in being able to communicate that message and and i can think of the top of my head of two specific examples that we’re working right now where that message is being communicated through embassies thank you um we have time for just a couple questions five minutes okay great any anybody from the audience don’t be shy yes please I want to dress him thanks very much I think that the fact we didn’t speak to it is probably an error on our parts because think you’re quite correct about the scale and the potential that it has to bring to the table I’m struck in the u.s. context about the variety of different models and scenarios that people have run into the future the energy information administration for example has done a series of cases in which they look at ways to reduce greenhouse gases and try to project forward to 2020 or now 20 25 or even 20 30 and as you say a substantial share comes in the form of energy efficiency the international energy agency based in Paris has the same kind of models earlier this week the international energy agency released a brand new report looking at 11 countries in the OECD in terms of their efficiency gains and benefits and that report demonstrates that in fact the savings if you add up the savings I think since 1990 is the base here that they use running through 2010 the equivalent saved if you were determinate in oil terms so say how much it would it be in barrels of oil is the amount in those 11 countries only that the u.s. consumes on an annual basis that’s the savings that we’ve already achieved and I think most people would think we’ve only just begun to scratch the surface of what’s globally possible that doesn’t include savings in Eastern Europe doesn’t include savings in China doesn’t include savings as we see economies developing without a focus on efficiency that they could have but I would take one more point we’ve actually not done as well as we’d like to do on the policy side if you take a look at the difficulty in figuring out exactly what’s the policy that drives efficiency well it’s partly regulatory thing like a refrigerator things like an automobile things that you deal with in terms of industrial motors those are all things in which we’ve got policies and they seem to do a good job but it’s hard to move them forward a price I’d be fabulous if you could put a price in place you could really end up driving people to a more rational behavior where the value of energy would really be turned into efficiency gains but that’s also very hard think about raising the taxes in any of our countries that any of you guys work in very very difficult politically to do so we’ve got real potential but we’ve also got real hurdles that we have to overcome to reach that potential Thanks yes so it has a really good question to think about where exemptions apply and when they get used and how you think about them going forward at the moment the natural gas price has been hovering between three and four dollars MTC F so that’s the current price when I began working in the states and I spent a number of years doing some work in the in the Northeast region before I join the State Department the Obama administration when I began working with the states we were thinking about a regional cap-and-trade program in the northeastern part of the country at that point we thought we could really if we were really lucky we could squeeze a few percentage points reductions because gas was hovering at between thirteen and fourteen dollars om tcf at that price Cole was unbelievably attractive and we were looking at moving coal power in from Pennsylvania moving it in from New Jersey and we couldn’t move on the politics so now let’s come down a lot and the question is what’s driven it down I think it’s been driven down by the new technologies I think your frakking model is exactly right I think that increasingly we’re seeing states themselves push back around the quality of the air and the water and increasingly in places like North Dakota some of you may have seen a statement

that the state of North Dakota was proposed proposing to sue some of the companies because the gas being flared was lost royalties for state coffers so here you’re seeing a very interesting evolution of the model for how its developed do you think you need exemptions I think it’s an open question do we benefit from the gas I think that’s very clear that we do are there ways you continue to benefit going forward and can you to maintain the environment quality that we all desire I think that’s the place we’re currently grappling so I think it’s a very new onset of issues one last question yes in the back think it was that a was there a question though it just to come oh just a general comment oh okay please George so I’m happy to start these guys probably have some other thoughts about it I’ve been doing a fair amount of work over the last number of years now in the Middle East and I use them as an example because I think there’s actually a really interesting story that’s being told here saudi arabia qatar united arab emirates dubai CR a whole series of countries around the world thinking about big oil export potential saudi arabia is a very good case in point the current projection suggests at saudi arabia which is historically the largest global producer and exporter is going to be consuming more than 70 and by the year twenty thirty perhaps as much as ninety percent of all of its oil at home now you think about an economy in which that’s the case and you think about what their structure looks like when they no longer have this export value and then you think about the costs of the alternatives they could sell oil on the global market today it takes some one hundred and five dollars a barrel the equivalent price for some combination of renewables maybe it’s a bit of nuclear power maybe it’s a variety of other alternatives like efficiency can get you anywhere from say twenty-five to thirty dollars a barrel of equivalent which means if you do those things and you sell your oil you’ve got seventy dollars of profit on every barrel above and beyond what you’ve done at home that makes for a remarkably interesting economic discussion and what are they doing they’ve just put in place the single largest single purchase order for solar power forty gigawatts I don’t know if they can meet that number it’s a staggeringly large number I don’t know they really can but the fact that they put it out there suggests a completely new paradigm and if the price continues to come down and I’m kind of here where ratata isn’t jcr i think that the models are really moving us down those cost curves for all of these options there’s a remarkably interesting story not just for the Middle East but for a great deal the rest of the world as well low-cost alternatives significant benefits on the climate side and revenues that can be saved against global market purchases which would otherwise have to incur I would just add and we need to reinforce what Jonathan just said we’re seeing significant investment growth in renewables in Asia and the Middle East in fact Asia’s now grew about sixteen percent over the last year where it’s declined elsewhere around the world for a lot of reasons but so they the deployment to opportunity for Asia’s is quite significant as I mentioned earlier Jonathan just reinforced himself as the cost reduction is changing i think the the playing field here entirely so that would be a very smart decision to to pursue this kind of you know more diverse approach and i would just add that you know when we talk about the ability to impact you know for scale i’m reminded again of fact here in the US you know in 2012 more than forty nine percent of all new power add capacity out of the United States came from renewable energy that’s massive it surpassed all other sources including natural gas in Europe in a you at seventy percent renewable energy new capacity so I think not only in the Middle East but you know what’s happening here and and the cumulative impact of all that I think presents a huge opportunity for countries all over even if they are very wealthy fortunate to have the the the conventional sources that they can diversify and actually strengthen their position by also investing in renewables I just think to put a fine point on it when we look at things we look at you know three things essentially like a global markets stable demand with some growth policy stability and essentially do the economics work and we say to the economics work could we spend our money to better returns in other places and I think in that brings in a whole host of things as dr

Pershing mentioned earlier XM you know can we bring XM at the table what does that mean for sourcing because we have to source so much the content the United States you know so we look at all those things and it really does come down to you know in China there’s the market is full of chief competitor so does GE farewell in that or how do we compete in that or you know in Vietnam or some of these other countries and so we’re actively chasing deals we’ve done deals in those places but it really is for us at the end of the day it’s an economically driven decision can we get the margins that we look for with our investment of capital in a given market or can we do better somewhere else so that’s kind of whatever out oils count great great thank you very much and you’ll have an opportunity to meet the panelists offline too as well so I encourage you all to ask further questions if need be I think we will go ahead and move to it as a short break or okay great again thank you all very much and look forward to talking to you further