OPP 018: The Perfect Health Diet with Paul Jaminet

you are listening to the optimal performance podcast sponsored by natural stacks if you’re into biohacking performance and getting more out of your life this is the show for you if you want more on building optimal performance check out optimal performance comm we’re looking for a way to change your life selfishly that it should remain a secret because it is such an advantage Nike stock start off my senior mentor happy Thursday all you optimal performers and welcome to another episode of the optimal performance podcast I’m your host Ryan Muncie and I’m pumped to introduce you guys to today’s guest mr. Paul jamon a Paul thanks for hanging out with us say hello to everybody oh hey Ryan it’s great to be with you and your audience we are we’re the ones that are in for a treat we appreciate your time look forward to doing this so for all you guys listening Paul and his wife I know you talked you just told me this and I’m gonna butcher it I apologize cha-ching our co-authors of the perfect health diet and I admitted to Paul before we hit record I’m a little bit intimidated you know I have a degree in food science and human nutrition but it’s it’s a little intimidating reading the biography on these guys Paul is an astrophysicist at Harvard at the Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and his wife is a molecular biologist and cancer researcher at Beth Israel and Harvard Medical School so we’re gonna talk to some really really smart folks and get some awesome information for everybody tonight go ahead Paul well don’t be intimidated because actually everything I know I learned fun remind mistakes so you know all strengths to kind of come from a deficit and and we that’s one of the things we love about this movement is that most of the people involved with this movement got into it somehow through either some deficiency or issue or some kind of deficit and I know you guys focus on treating chronic illness and you know anti-aging things like that and before we really dive into everything about perfect health diet we’ve got a couple of housekeeping things to take care of so number one we love your five-star reviews so keep them coming head on over to iTunes leave us some love over there we will read them on the air we’re gonna start with two of them from two for today B Brown says solid legit legit guests great content one of the best new fitness and health podcasts and another one from Francis by the sea says incredible great info on working out and nutritional suggestions can’t wait to try still temp and dopamine brain food so if you thought the nutrition suggestions were good before wait until tonight so as always show notes are available at optimal performance calm for this specific episode go to optimal performance calm / perfect health diet you’ll be able to see the video version of pala not as well as links to a lot of the things that we talk about any resources and of course the book perfect health diet so fact of the day before we really dive in the obesity related to spending annually in America has now climbed to 190 billion dollars that is 190 billion dollars every year just in America and that is an average of $1,200 a year more for an obese man compared to a non obese man for women that number is actually $3,600 a year more for women so if you’re not going to do the health thing if you’re not going to eat right and take care of your weight for the health reasons at least do it for your wallet I mean you’re talking enough money there to go on a really nice vacation but again with optimal performers listeners I know that’s not an issue you guys are always seeking and striving for the for the best but we’re gonna do our best to convince you and help you achieve that and today with Paul so Paul I’m gonna stop talking I want you to tell me and our listeners how you and your wife got rolling with perfect health diet yeah well it really started with our personal health problems and those were you know things we suffered from for a long time you know actually about 15 years or so and it seemed like every year they get a little worse and every year we’d go back

to the doctor and say well you know there there’s nothing we can do you know you’re you’re aging or or I don’t really know what it is it’s not you know you don’t have a diagnosed health condition you just have a bunch of complaints and you know it doesn’t fit in their toolbox they don’t know what to do and you know and we didn’t know what to do either so you know we just focused on our jobs and you know watched our health get worse year after year and finally that started to change for me in 2005 so first of all I started noticing I had really gone downhill I was losing my memory I have very slow reaction time I had you know most of my problems began when I took a year-long course of antibiotics at age 29 for acne and and in retrospect it must have really messed up my gut and I had some fungal infection issues that probably had some kind of yeast overgrowth or something but anyway I was a runner and my running times slowed way down over that year and they stayed slow and and then I started having more and more issues and and so I didn’t really know what to do until in 2005 I discovered the Paleo diet and tried that and it was the first thing I tried that made a big difference and some things got worse some things got better but you know the really crucial thing is just to find something that matters getting started right that’s right yeah so so then I knew diet mattered and so then the question was alright you know paleo made some things worse so obviously the way I was implementing it wasn’t perfect but you know it behoove me to try to figure out what would be a better diet you know how to take what was good in paleo and fix what was bad what well the two big problems which are the first ones I figured out where then I was to low carb and I also became deficient in vitamin C and I really figured that out I kind of scratch wound on my legs uh you know I like I’m running in the woods and got scratched by some thorns or something and it just wouldn’t heal and six months later I still had scratch mark and and then I took some vitamin C and it healed and so I realized I have been vitamin C deficient and and before that I’d realized that I was too little carb and I did better I needed carbs and you know so at that point you know I basically found two nutrient deficiencies one of glucose and one of vitamin C and I figured I bet I’m probably deficient in a lot of other things I just haven’t noticed it yet and so I decided the way to go would be to research all the nutrients you know figure out how much you need of each and then look at foods and see what should I eat in order to get those nutrients and that’s what I started doing and it turned out to be a big project that took over five years I think but it eventually became the perfect health diet and so the reason we chose the name is I it’s it’s related to the idea that you know your your reach should exceed your grasp you know you’re you’re never gonna be perfect but you should strive for it and the reason that’s important in health is there’s really many many factors that contribute to health so there’s no magic bullet you have to fix lots lots and lots of small things and if you’re not aiming to be perfect you’re just not going to fix very many things so if you really want to have good health and optimize performance then you need to you really need to optimize lots and lots of factors and so for instance if you think of optimizing nutrition and there’s like 16 known nutrients though you know we know we need and then there’s a whole bunch of unknown nutrients that are in food but you know they haven’t really been assessed by science yet you know so there’s a lot of factors just there and then when you add in lifestyle and all kinds of other things that you can optimize there are a lot of factors that matter for help yeah and I think that’s where we’re gonna really dig in today is you know as you said if you’re looking to truly live optimally you’ve got to look at all of the little things how every every action that you do everything that goes into your body touches your body all of that stuff affects performance and that’s really to today and in this episode what we’re gonna dig into is how the food we eat affects us not only mentally but but in all aspects of health and you know obviously physical performance as well so what I would like to do is just get right into

your version of the perfect health diet and let’s talk a little bit about how you guys have it structured why it is that way so I mean our listeners are going one going to want to know what to eat now if you visit perfect health diet calm I’ve found this on you guys website I love it you have an amazing graphic will actually share this on social media and of course on on the optimal performance comm slash perfect health diet what the show notes will have an image of this so people can see it but it’s in the shape of an apple and you haven’t broken down I guess best analogy for people who haven’t seen it is it’s your version of the food pyramid or something like that so so for people trying to visualize this if they’re driving and not watching and looking at it I want to go through each each component of it and the amount that you guys suggest and allow you to kind of provide insights and the rationale behind each one that sound good yeah that’s terrific cool so first you guys have a category that you’re calling sweet plants and this was going to consist of things like berries carrots beets other fruits and you’re gonna recommend up to one pound per day yeah or more or less precisely one pound per day if if you’re on that’s for those amounts are for a 2000 calorie reference diet so most men will lead a little more women if they’re not active will eat a little less you know but that’s a good a good average amount for various people and and we would say just increase the amounts to appetite we recommend intermittent fasting eating eight hours a day and fasting sixteen hours overnight and you want to eat an amount that makes you just to start getting moderately hungry at the end of the overnight fast so you know you might have an hour of mild hunger and that means you’ll notice it if you’re not doing anything but if you start working or someone talks to you you forget that you’re hungry and so getting to the to the sweet plants a pound you know that corresponds to like three three or four pieces of fruit you know so it’s not a lot and you can have fruit as a snack as well is as part of a meal so you can think of those in terms of a meal as something to flavor at just a little bit of sweetness you know so I’ll often put cranberries or raisins in our rice when we make rice you know or we’ll have we’ll have beets or carrots or a little bit of fruit flavoring a meal and then we’ll have some fruit as a snack and as a dessert so you know so the amounts I so one of the things we did was go through every nutrient and look at what’s the optimal amount and fructose so a lot of carbohydrates digest either glucose or fructose and fruits digest to about half of each and so the amount of sweet plants recommend this basically based on what we think is the optimal amount of fructose in the diet and you want to have a sum because fructose actually helps the liver regulate glucose a little bit better so fructose basically gets directed to the liver and and it gets converted to glycogen there and it depletes ATP in the liver which helps the liver take up other things more effectively from the blood so you’ll regulate glucose a little bit better if you eat some fruit I you know but you don’t need a lot you know like I said three piece of fruit a days is enough to optimize your that the benefits that you get from fruit goes and if you eat too much fructose or sugar then it gives you a risk of got this by also some fructose isn’t absorbed as well as glucose and and if you have fructose in your small intestine you can get a bacterial overgrowth or it can start to negatively affect your gut microbiome well you could get things like acid reflux you could get things like your LDL cholesterol creeping up you know you might be slightly inflamed your you might get a little bit of hypothyroidism but you know in most people most people wouldn’t notice anything you know I just be one of those very subtle influences

you might have a very slight inflammation it might be slightly more tired than you would be otherwise but you know you wouldn’t notice it because you feel the same every day right so and it’s and it’s such a small effect you know most of these things if you’re a little bit imperfect it’s such a small effect and people wouldn’t notice it but when you get fifty things that are a little imperfect it can add up you know so if you really want to optimize performance you want to get everything right and any kind of inflammation in the body is gonna slow you down you know there’s no better recipe for fatigue than making your immune system do it thanks you know some people who have food sensitivities they get you know exhausted they want to go to sleep after meals you know so any kind of inflammation is gonna you know it’s gonna make you fatigued it’s going to make you slower I’m glad you jumped right into the amount of fructose because that was actually going to be a follow-up question I have in this category so you said that the pound suggestion is going to put people at about the amount that you guys suggest everything that that I’ve seen is an upper limit of 15 to 25 grams of fructose per day is that consistent with what I well that’s a good amount but I wouldn’t call it an upper limit I would call it about the optimum you know I we recommend about 25 grams of fructose a day total and we think that’s about up so the next category safe starches and again a pound a day so this is gonna be we’re talking sweet potatoes you mentioned rice what else are you guys putting in that category and how does something earn that stamp of yeah so these are basically starchy foods so the nice thing about these they digest entirely to glucose the part the carbs that are digestible and glucose is you know sort of the mainstay carbohydrate the building block that our body uses and they also develop a beneficial form of fiber called resistant starch and you want to have some resistant starch in your diet in order to optimize your gut microbiome which is really important and and they have a lot of other you know that they bring in some other nutritional benefits as well things like potassium you know so potatoes are a really good source of potassium and some other minerals you know so generally they’re a good nutritional complement to the diet and the word safe that we use that distinguishes them from things like wheat or some beans where we suspect that there are compounds that can negatively affect our health like digestive inhibitors that you know have the risk of damaging the intestine or damaging our health in some fashion yeah potentially you know things like trypsin inhibitors or other digestive inhibitors um you know so basically these these greens and the goom’s the seats of grains and legumes they grew in grasslands that have been fed on by herbivores yes they’ve been fed on by mammals and so they’re a little bit different than many other plants in which our close relatives like mammals have been their major predator and so they’ve evolved some compounds that are really effective at targeting our guts and if they get into our body if they can target our gut cells that can target other cells too and so if they get into our body that can cause problems as well and and there’s some evidence for you know some of these like soybeans seem to be associated with cognitive impairment and dementia we is associated with various there are hints that it can have significant negative health effects even apart from celiac disease and you know a lot of these things you know like beans in there raw beans are highly toxic just a small amount can kill you and you know cooking destroys a lot of the toxins but not necessarily all of them and you know so at least in some cases we think it’s

prudent to just avoid them that also includes onions mushrooms and of course fermented vegetables anything yeah so so our approach was was always to look at micronutrients figure out the optimal amount of them and then see what foods we’d need to get there and it was kind of tricky estimating you know the amount of vegetables that would be optimal um so we don’t necessarily have an optimum but I would say you need at least a pound of vegetables so if you eat a pound of vegetables along with the pound of sweet plant sweet fruits and also close to a pound of meat then you’ll end up getting the optimal amount of potassium which is a critical nutrient and you know so you need about four pounds of food a day in order to get enough potassium and but three pounds of the more calorie dense foods like meat and starches and fruit will get you to 2,000 calories so you basically need to eat at least a pound a day a very low calorie foods like vegetables in order to optimize potassium so that’s one and we also know it’s good you want to diverse diverse types of fiber and vegetables diversify your fiber so they have different types of fiber than starches and food you so you know you definitely want to get some vegetables for their fiber you definitely want to get something for their potassium and you want to mix so you mentioned green leafy vegetables those have some very beneficial nutrients carotenoids nitro nitrates so you know folate so there are various there are good reasons to eat at least a pound a day of vegetables no you just mentioned nitrite nitrates as as beneficial compounds so a lot of times when when we hear most often when we hear those things mentioned we hear them in a negative light when we look for preservative three things or packaged meats bacon especially can you distinguish for our listeners the difference in the two yeah well you know some of the nitrates used as preservatives could be beneficial it’s a so basically what happens is the nitrates can get converted by bacteria to nitrite and the nitrite can get converted by sunlight to nitric oxide and that seems to be highly protective against cardiovascular disease so it’s a good idea leafy vegetables and it’s a good idea to go out in the Sun and expose some skin and and there’s also you know there are other ways to get some of those things so for instance this company that is working with us at our retreats called a Oh biome offers a skin probiotic called a o plus mist where they have some bacteria that convert your sweat when you sweat ammonia from having eaten lots of protein they’ll convert the ammonia into nitrate and that’ll get yeah it’s reabsorbed by the skin and then when you get the sunlight it makes nitric oxide so that’s you know so if you don’t like eating green leafy vegetables you can get the skin probiotics well if you go back to an old post in search on a old biome on my blog and you can find a coupon code for our listeners to get 25% off yeah the coupon code is pH D 25 and the place to go is stored al biome comm um alright so so anyway and you know so there can be downsides to nitrogen compounds there and that’s one reason why eating too much protein isn’t necessarily a great idea because the the protein will release nitrogen when it’s metabolized and and that can create dangerous compounds especially bacteria when they’re consuming it you know but in general the the nitrate looks to be beneficial okay and I know like I said that’s one where commonly the way you hear it is in a negative light so thank you for clarifying now while we’re on the topic of vegetables fermented vegetables are also in that category for you guys we love fermented vegetables loaded with probiotics vitamin k2 anything else that you would add as a reason for people to seek out yeah

well they’re actually you know they’re very valuable nutritionally and one of the overlooked nutrients and fermented vegetables are nucleotides no so things like RNA DNA so you have all these bacteria and you know they have a lot of DNA and RNA and particularly when they multiply they’re they’re multiplying their their DNA and getting those nucleotides is actually beneficial you know so they can be a little bit hard to make and they can inhibit you no shortage of them can hibbott growth and wound healing and so it turns out you know especially at young ages like babies um it’s very desirable to give them some nucleotides and breast milk has a lot of nucleotides in it but formula doesn’t and that could be one reason why babies don’t do as well on formula and so we actually we switched from breast milk to formula with our baby at about age three months and and I put a little fish sauce in his milk so that he would get some nucleotides from that I don’t imagine feeding sauerkraut or kimchi to a baby yeah it’s son yeah and fiber is also lacking in a little fiber some of the oligosaccharides that are found in milk act like a fiber for gut bacteria and so one of the things we did for that was add a little vinegar to the milk so gut bacteria when they metabolize fiber and they produce acetic acid which is vinegar and she could make up for the lack of fiber by by giving a little a few drops of vinegar we don’t supplement basically vegetables are really good prebiotics and so eat your vegetables after getting two pounds of today you’re probably taking care of it yeah yeah okay now I know for a lot of people here just hearing that number of a pound of vegetables a day or a pound of vegetables and a pound of the sweet plants I think that can consume daunting or overwhelming to some is there a practical approach that you guys have found to help people go from not enough to baby steps to getting their juicing or oh no no actually it sounds like a lot and actually when I spoke at dinner with excellence and I mentioned that you know I recommend three pounds a day of plant food it’s like everybody gasped like oh is something crazy but then when you see it in action you know it’s basically two plates of food you know so if you if you take a plate and just put into quarters and you have you know one quarter is like a potato and one quarter is a beet and one quarter is some vegetables and one quarter is some meat and then you have two plates a day all right well you’ve gotten your four pounds of food and three pounds of plant food so you know it’s not that hard to eat it you know people normally eat it the big thing is just cutting out all of the processed food with the junk food and you know and then you’ve got the appetite team to eat that much yeah and I think it’s just it seems overwhelming and it seems like a large number just because it’s it’s not necessarily the way that we’re used to hearing or start to say pounds people start to write yeah but now if you have like a fist-sized potato you know that’s half a pound so you have one for lunch one for dinner you’re all set and it’s it’s not that well talked about your meat recommendation and that’s gonna be 0.7 pounds up to one pound per day yeah yeah so just just slightly less than the amount of starches or or sweet plants but you know it’s pretty close in terms of you know size if you just visually look at your plate you know just have almost as much mean as you have potatoes or rice or and you’ll be doing well and you know we recommend probably seafood is probably the healthiest form of meat or fish we also recommend ruminant meats that’s like beef lamb goat but with the exception of people who have Hashimoto’s thyroiditis so so one of the problems of mammals eating mammals they’re closely

related to us and there’s a someone higher risk of autoimmunity eating them so you know if you think of the mammals like pork from pigs cows sheep lamb you know those are all mammals and so it’s slightly higher autoimmunity risk you generally don’t have to worry about that if you don’t have an autoimmune condition but if you do then you might want to de-emphasize those so they’re really healthy but they’re a slight autoimmunity risk and then the bird meats like chicken or duck are where you know they’re relatively safe in autoimmune terms but they’re not quite as optimized nutritionally as the beef or lamb and pork you want to get good quality you know so I would say seafood and fish are probably our number one for most people the beef lamb would be next pork has a few problems that can carry some germs that can infect us and so it’s so you definitely want to cook your pork well but and it’s also desirable to get pastured naturally raised you mentioned earlier some some issues with too much yeah well we don’t we don’t need that much protein as protein so if you eat more it’s either going to go into the body and be used for energy you know so if you’re on a low-carb diet that may happen and in that case you’re going to release the nitrogen you know so basically the amino acids you can’t metabolize the nitrogen and so I’ll have the nitrogen will get released will become ammonia and then the ammonia may go to urea or uric acid and you know ammonia you wouldn’t drink ammonia you know you can excrete it in sweat you can convert it to urea but it’s not necessarily healthy for you um the other thing that happens if you read a lot is you just don’t absorb some of the protein so it goes down and your gut and it’s fermented by gut bacteria and they’re releasing the nitrogen there and that’s also making toxic compounds in your gut and so you won’t have as good a gut microbiome if if your bacteria are fermenting protein as you would if they were fermenting carbohydrate forms of fiber and you’ll be generating various toxins that you know are dangerous to your colon will probably increase your risk for colon cancer and other issues so you know as in all things you want to give your body the amount it needs and not an excess now you know if you’re if you want to optimize how much muscle mass you have then sometimes you want to force things you want to overdrive them you know give a little extra of the nutrition that you need you know so if you’re a competitive bodybuilder or things like that you know our athlete strength athlete then you may want to eat more protein than is optimal for health you know but that’s sort of a personal personal thing so our advice is basically optimized for health and that’s that’s one of those things we’ve talked about this before another episodes where everything is gold dependent and you need to get back to why you’re doing this so so like you said if somebody is a bodybuilder performance for them means something different than performance for you or maybe even the third person so if you were working with a competitive bodybuilder just for example how much higher would you go in protein well I wouldn’t I wouldn’t go above 150 grams of protein a day and so that’s basically where the liver starts to lose the ability to convert ammonia to urea and they’ll start generating uric acid you start generating ammonia you know you can get a bodybuilders felt smell from the ammonia in the sweat and you know of course you can help get rid of that if you use the AO biome then you’re not probiotic but you know but you still you still have the ammonia inside your body before it gets excreted and that’s not not so good for you um and I think you know you can stimulate the you know the muscle building pathways with carbohydrate and with fats as well so you know so you don’t necessarily want to you know just keep going with the protein after you get to that point where your body is no longer able to

handle it the analogy was that when dietary protein is is a yes it’s a building block for the muscles but if you imagine driving by a construction site where somebody’s building a house if you send in more bricks than are needed to construct the house it’s not going to get built bigger or faster the the foundation is what it is the house is going to use the same number of bricks you know just because you send in more brakes doesn’t mean the house is gonna be finished faster or bigger so I thought that was a really good analogy and I think that that helps people make sense of more isn’t necessarily better yeah that’s right you want you want everything you need in proportion you know in balance proportions you know so you need to build up extra tissue you need to build up cells you need to build up the extracellular matrix scaffold and you know if you just provide one piece but not the other pieces then it’s not gonna work that well so the next category that you guys have is the do not eat peanuts sugar we talked about you also have vegetable oils okay um well sugar you know like we said we have a target of fructose of 25 grams and that’s the amount in about a pound of fruit and and you really want to get that from natural Whole Foods you don’t want to get it from added sugar and so basically anything that has added sugar in and you shouldn’t eat you know so I just drop the cotton candy and no and you know peanuts you should eat tree nuts instead I you know so there’s evidence that peanuts are not so healthy uh compared to tree nuts so man they’re actually a member of the legume family so any of the information that you shared earlier about beans and other legumes are gonna be they’re gonna hold true for peanuts right yeah that’s right yep and so also why they’re one of the top seven allergenic foods yeah yeah well tree nuts can cause allergies too but they’re generally healthier so you know so I would get cashew butter or almond butter rather than or macadamia nut butter rather than peanut butter if you want to have a nut butter not better cooking and vegetable oils are a big no-no on our diet but basically that’s the ones that are high omega-6 so it’s the ones that grow at northerly latitudes you know so it’s it’s things like corn oil soybean oil canola oil sunflower oil safflower oil you want to avoid all those things the plant oils from the tropics are generally helpful so things like coconut milk is good avocado oil olive oil macadamia nut oil palm oil is okay and then most animal fats are our healthful as well what we get well basically we recommend making it at home so I use egg yolks use lots of egg yolk so it’s a healthy fat you know you use some good quality cream I put in fruit berries you know you use those as you know lots of those as a as your primary sweetener and if you need it sweeter you know you could use some honey some dextrose powder like I like I mentioned you know but in general I would say you know the store-bought ice creams they tend to have a little too much milk protein from skim milk they didn’t have too much sugar and the fats tend to be a little lower quality we don’t use the egg yolks like they should so you can definitely make more nutritious yeah well even if it’s all dairy fats you know that’s a that’s a pretty good quality oil but it still it doesn’t have the nutrition that egg yolks would and you know we highly recommend eating yoke’s you know you can make ice cream

more of a health food if you make it yourself well they’re just nutritionally packed you know so anytime you have to support the growth of a baby the growth of an embryo then you know you need to provide complete nutrition and you know you need really good quality nutrition so things like and most of the nutrition in the egg is in the yolk so egg yolks and things like fish roe caviar is nutrient-dense you know breast milk is pretty nutritionally good so you know if you had to have just one food you know a a single food diet then you know the milk would be a good choice yeah so it’s in their pleasure food list which means that it’s good for you in small amounts but it’s easy to overdo it and chocolate is good for you it’s good for your gut microbiome it’s got lots of beneficial compounds you know stead of being a class like coffee tea not you know things that are quite beneficial in small amounts but some of them have kind of addictive properties or you know if you if you put a lot of nuts on your desk you may find yourself you know reaching in and you know not stopping until the bowl is empty right you know some people have that with chocolate some with some you know drink too much coffee so you know all those are good for you but you want to want to regulate the amount that you take in know that covers most everything on the I know you mentioned that you you guys suggest an intermittent fasting 16 fast 8 for the eating window so if people are not familiar with that typically you would maybe let’s say you started eating at noon you would eat until 8 p.m. you would fast and from a p.m. each evening until noon the next day the nutrient timing is something that that is very important before performance and that’s a question that I have for you you know obviously the fasting window is going to dictate a lot of that nutrient Tommy but how what other considerations do you guys well the key thing is you want to eat all your food in the day time so the best time to eat is in the afternoon so even if you’re gonna end up eating late in the evening you should try to eat most of your calories in the afternoon you know potentially have two meals in the afternoon you know have like a lunch big lunch and a second snack in the mid-afternoon and then just you know eat a light amount of food and maybe save some of your supper as leftovers for the next day and now the ideal the ideal feeding window would be exactly 12 hours opposite you’re sleeping window on so the way we recommend doing it is you have a 12 hour daytime 12 hour nighttime I just an artificial one year-round you know set it up and avoid bright light in your night time you know try to make it only red orange light and and make everything as bright as you can in the 12 hour day time and then in your day time the feeding window starts 3 hours into the day time and ends one hour before the end of daytime and your sleep window starts 3 hours after the start at nighttime and one hour before the end of nighttime on you know so if your nighttime window was at 8:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. then you’d sleep 11 p.m. to 7 a.m ud 11:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. and you know more natural if you are letting the Sun dictate your day time might be 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. and then you eat 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. and your sleep 9:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. but most people find it much easier to shift a little bit a little bit later relative to the Sun are there any other yeah well we have a group that we call supplemental foods which means you should make a point of including

them in your diet either daily or weekly just like you would a supplement you know just make it a habit you know do it routinely so one of them is egg yolks we recommend three egg yolks a day another one it’s liver we recommend a quarter pound a week you know so just like some supplements you might take once a week some you might take every day it’s the same thing with critical foods another good one is extracellular matrix you know so that’s making soups and stews out of bones joints tendons chicken feed ox hoofs and so extracellular matrix that’s something you know most people really underneath and you can get a lot of benefits by including more of that in your diet seafood fermented vegetables you know those are things you should make a point to include joints tendons the protein so that’s something that we’re really proud of so now supplements for longevity here’s some more similarities in our views in your views you know we are big fans of magnesium vitamin D vitamin C you guys have those listed on your website also yeah yeah so those are really important nutrients and there are also things that it’s pretty easy to be deficient in they’re commonly particularly vitamin C magnesium that you mentioned there they’re kind of too bulky to fit into multivitamins so you know most people don’t you know don’t supplement them easily but there are among the most common deficiencies so yeah we’ve got a small group of nutrients that we recommend supplementing I just because they’re relatively safe it’s not easy to overdose on them a lot of people are deficient it’s very easy to become deficient you know something like vitamin C it’s not in a lot of foods its destroyed and by heat so cooking can Australia you know if if you ate a pound of sweet peppers a day then you probably be getting enough C but you know not many people do that and when you know and it’s and it’s very safe so you know there’s a lot to be said for supplementing it there’s similarly magnesium you know if there were a really good food source of magnesium then we might say just eat that as a supplemental food you know but really it’s pretty widely distributed among foods and you know it’s another one that’s really crucial for health and a lot of people are deficient so you know this is a good case for supplementing it ok now you mentioned in the very beginning part of the beginning of your journey was with the Paleo diet you found that you became deficient in vitamin C how did you fix that was a strictly dietary or or did you supplement with it yeah I used supplements I found that I had to take 2 grams a day for a month in order to relieve my deficiency and get everything working again now in retrospect and having read more papers and stuff but I should have done was take more like 20 grams a day and get rid of the deficiency quicker you know so I can take a while to the yeah recover not really I mean there are blood tests but nobody gets the blood tests done I and unless you go into a hospital and you’re bleeding then though you know your gums are bleeding and yeah your teeth are falling out you know and then they’ll go test your vitamin C status but you know it’s not it’s not a routine test and you know an easiest way is actually to supplemented and what you can do is is take a lot in one day and see how much you need in order to reach bowel tolerance and balla tolerances when once you’ve stuffed your body with vitamin C your gut will stop absorbing it when the vitamin C gets down to your colon then it really disturbs the gut bacteria and and you start getting queasy you’ll get gas you’ll get if you take too much you’ll get diarrhea and you know so you should really stop at the first sign of queasiness or any hint of gas yeah that’s right yeah that’s right and anyhow you know so

if you assess bowel tolerance if your vitamin C status is good then your bowel tolerance might be at fifteen grams or less but if it’s if it more than 15 grams then you’re probably deficient and you should be supplementing vitamin C and you know for most people a gram a day would be a good dose you know but you can do you can do the bowel tolerance test and then when we’ve done it with people at our retreat it’s not uncommon you know some people will need 40 or 50 grams in order to reach bowel tolerance and they should definitely be supplementing you know maybe a couple grams a day now you mentioned the retreat you guys this is the the perfect healthy retreat tell us a little bit about that where does it take place what do what if folks get when they show up for this yeah well it’s a really good deal on they take place on the beach in North Carolina we’ve got luxury properties two heated saltwater pools two saltwater hot tubs it’s right on the beach at the time of the year we do it it’s almost a private beach on you know luxury accommodations and we just teach you everything you need to know about how to be hungry how to be healthy for the rest of your life and how to optimize performance I give science classes every day it’s a complete curriculum and how to be healthy diet nutrition lifestyle exercise movement managing your health other things we’ve got got for movement classes a day is basically a morning light activity initiate circadian rhythms movement sessions that be things like tai chi or yoga Sun Salutations we’ll do late morning late afternoon activity that would be more intense and over the course of the week you know there will be a dozen of those classes and it’ll be a complete education and you know physical movement different modalities so that everybody can find things they enjoy and then in the evening we have a class that’s devoted to relaxation stress relief healing massage meditation and we use things like heart rate variability biofeedback to help make it effective and you know basically teaching people how to put their body into the right frame for rest recovery sleep and we we do one in one health coaching starting before the retreat we could have cooking classes before every meal we have great food and nutrition and the environment is really optimized for circadian rhythms we change the lighting at night to red orange lighting and we we teach you how to set up your home we’re good as a good circadian rhythm environment sleep promoting environment you know we teach you what things to do when and what things not to do at different times of day you know so it’s a really complete education and it’s a lot of fun and you know so it’s like a luxury vacation you know there’s free time to enjoy the beach and the pools and the hot tubs but you know you’re also getting and there you know there’s great food we call our diet ancestral gourmet cuisine because it’s pretty optimized for taste and you know we serve wine at dinner and stuff so you know you can enjoy it but it’s really healthful as well and we’ve also had some partnerships we did a partnership with you biome for gut sequencing and so we’ve done before and after got sequencing I think the recent guests and I we’re gonna do Studies on that and see how they were tree it’s their microbiomes and you know so we’re really doing everything we can to give people a fantastic experience and teach them everything they need to know to be healthy for the rest of their lives yeah you should come so so if I or our listeners wanted to attend where would they go to to get more details on that well if you go to our website perfect health diet comm there’s a tab that says perfect health retreat and you can look under there for webpages and if you’re really interested in coming and send me an email Paul at perfect health retreat calm and I’ll be happy to sign you up and you know give you any information you need to decide whether you want to come all right let me know so you mentioned like informing the the

guests of the retreat how to set up their home are there are there any hints or tips you can give us to to set up our living spaces optimally to to maximize circadian rhythms and yeah well probably well of course you want a really good sleep environment so when you sleep it should be dark it should be quiet it should be comfortable but the really crucial thing is arranging your schedule and lighting is really crucial so light is one of the key circadian rhythm drivers and circadian rhythms are probably the key lifestyle element to good health and and it’s blue light that sets daytime rhythms and disrupts nighttime rhythms and so you really want to get a lot of bright white light at night but then during the day I mean yeah but then at night you don’t want to get any blue or green light you just want to have a red orange you know think of a campfire red orange yellow those are the those are the safe colors at night and so we have basically orange light bulbs and we base they have two sets of bulbs we have a daytime bulb which so one of the key things one of the key problems people have is they get these cool white bulbs the color temperature is like 2700 K and and that’s not bright enough not enough blue to really give you a good daytime but it’s way too much blue that you know it disrupts your night and so that’s bad both ways so we recommend getting like 5500 k bulbs for the daytime and then get red orange bulbs for the nighttime and if you go to our website we have a tab recommendations and under there there’s a page called circadian rhythms and we have some lightbulbs you can get so basically the best thing is have two sets of bolts a daytime set and a nighttime set and just switch over what does that look like at home I mean just like one set of lights for any given space or are you actually alternating you’re not taking the ball about it you know as the light no we just know what we do is in the daytime you want very bright white light and so like all of our overhead lights at home are bright white 5500 Kelvin and and you know we try to get enough bulb so that there’s abundant light then at night you don’t need bright light so what we tend to do is have floor lamps that have maybe three spots and we’ll put the orange bulbs in there and then at night we turn off all the other one so we just turn on the orange floor lamps and you know that’s a dim relatively dim orange light and that’s really good for nighttime it’s really relaxing makes it easy to go to sleep after a few hours of that that’s train yeah and you know so we make just bright enough that you can read if you’re close to it you know but that’s really all you need so oh we’re getting to the end before we ask you for your your top three tips to live optimal I just want to say thank you for hanging out with us thank you for everything that you guys are doing to push this movement forward and you know we already mentioned a couple of times where folks can find you guys perfect health diet calm we’ll have a link on our show notes page optimal performance calm / perfect health diet where people our listeners will be able to go back to your website we’ll have a link to the perfect health retreat anything else you want to add where people can find you guys I mean obviously the book is available on Amazon any other bookstores yeah it’s it’s all over it was published by Scribner so a major imprint and you know I would say if you get a chance to come to our perfect health retreat it’s you know it’s really a great deal and you know we’ve because we’re really trying to gather evidence and we want to help people become healthy we want to establish that our diet and our lifestyle advice can cure most modern diseases you know so we track you know we try to stay in touch with guests after they leave we try and help them troubleshoot any problems they have and we try and help them cure their diseases and and we really want to demonstrate to the scientific and medical community that the ancestral approach is really what people need to be healthy and you know so the retreats they’re really modeled on what the vegetarian doctors did if you think of like the Pritikin longevity center and so on they got a lot of mileage out of a few papers you

know saying that their guests had lower rates of heart disease and you know we want to show all right our guests have lower rates of heart disease of cancer of autoimmune disease of everything else and obesity and so on and and you know so and we’re on we’re on track to do that we think and you know so we’re working very hard to make our guests as healthy as they can and it’s really in the cost is very similar to what you’d spend for a week’s vacation and you know so you’re getting a lot of extra help along with a you know delightful week alright I’d say number one need a natural Whole Foods diet you know so don’t eat the processed food you know you things like you know the caveman could have hunted they’re gathered you know so should recognize plants and animals so that’s number one I would say the circadian rhythm entrainment is really crucial you know when we look at lifespan extension you know any kind of circadian rhythm disruption takes six years of off your life easily you know and that’s things like not exercising it’s things like sleep apnea or next shift work you know it’s things like blue light at night watching a lot of television at night you know take six years off your life because you know TV is pretty blue you know so basically however you you know or social isolation you know not getting social interactions in the day that’s another important circadian rhythm factor and you know so every way you look at it it’s a it’s a major health impact and then I would say intermittent fasting is actually a very powerful intervention and I you know that most people most people dumped it alright thank you you’ve been listening to optimal performance podcast remember you can find show notes for every episode along with video version at optimal performance comm and also remember optimal performance podcast loves your 5-star ratings so head on over to iTunes show us some five-star love see you next Thursday