Kyoto University, Evolang IX Kyoto, Rafael Núñez, Mar. 13-16, 2012 -08

good morning everyone and thank you for the invitation to the committee who’s always a pleasure to be here and share work and ideas with you and though it’s tough to give the first talk after the dinner conference dinner but on the last day of the weekend but we’ll see how it goes so this talk is formally entitled the reducible semantic communicative Drive imagination and culture beyond the hands it could have been also called or entitled living fossils demonstrative bodily actions and imagination Catching Fire but it’s not the one today this is something in progress but you would get the point towards the end of the talk of why this should be or could be the title of this presentation so going back to the official title I would like to start with some ideas about explanatory power in science so consider the following case a real-world utterance so person says so she sold me this but she didn’t sell me this or that now this is a person natural language is highly frequent this sort of thing to say you know put this put it over there take that and put it under this and so on they’re fully grammatical expressions and they’re vocalize by a clear speech so there’s no issues in in those domain however clearly we have a problem if we want to understand what is the meaning or what is the communication or the communicative act what is it about so without calling names or churches or ideologies just in the name in the circles for the sake of science just for scientific hygiene I just want to involve the idea of explanatory power in the sense that comprehension for which we have troubles explaining we need to probably consider our methods and theories and approaches so question about are we probably over behaving in an over reductionistic way sometimes and if yes what should we do so that being said I want to move to the second section of this talk and say something about reduction so this is a major piece in the history of evolutionary biology written by those suzunskiy this goes back to 1937 this is the author known to be the one who said nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution now the major thing of course that he was able to do was to synthesize and genetics so he’s the one in what actually through mutations and genes was able to explain natural selection how it occurs so this is not back in 1937 now two people already have mentioned Richard Lewontin in this also bring my own quotes and he wrote sixty years after that he wrote in which he critiqued these are some quotes an irony of the intellectual history of genetics and the Origin of Species is that the Lance became into evolutionary genetics from the study of morphological diversity in nature and so was able to relate the abstractions of genetic theory to the biology of organisms yet in the end he and the field became captives of the abstractions another interesting this one knobs on skis construction of the problem of speciation as solely the problem of reproductive isolation was a piece of scientific senator key substituting the process of reproductive isolation for the speciation process in its entirety it is a testimony to the influence that genetics and the origin of species has wielded over 60 years that we continue to study the speciation process without reference to the world that organisms construct and occupy so I

want to draw the attention to this the one hand is one in any scientific discipline we develop abstractions and sometimes we get trapped in those organizations as always again for the sake of hygiene to check and double-check how we’re doing with reality so we need the abstractions but then we need to double check and the other thing is of course this idea of replacing something for something else call this this part only so in that particular case is substituting the entire system just by very specific aspect of reproduction in isolation standing for the whole speciation process in nature okay so I want to bring that idea because we do that all the time every experiment we’ll have to do it deal with it however the question is is it warranted every time to do a reduction is the move are we all ready to the move and that’s what I would like to address today in this case so what is reductionism is this practice of studying complex phenomenon in terms of simpler ones taking systemic for the former without loss so here’s an example of digesting that pipe Jacques de Maupassant 1739 18th century so at a certain level this is a good model for understanding that say how food gets into the body and spend some time inside the body and then comes out so in that level of generalization maybe a good move however if you’re interesting in the metabolism of digestion and how it affects the nature of feathers then probably this model is not enough so unwarranted reductionism is this practice of studying a complex phenomenon in terms of simpler ones taking system for the former with demonstrated loss of explanatory power so this is now what I want to bring in because it is something we absolutely want to avoid no matter what church we are in in science doing all kinds of ideological practices this is something that we need to avoid so back to Britain the mountain this is an emulsion is particularly because is a multifactorial phenomenon and then it occurred only once so we can’t really do lab replications we have to serve so the warranting criteria for the reductionistic mover particularly problematic and sensitive and we have to pay attention to it the moral is then that we have to handle reductionism with care ok that’s the message and of course the question of this particular conference is what about the evolution of language well we all know we have a problem on the one hand is a multifactorial phenomenon is a multi modal phenomenon as I’ll show later example but mystic practice didn’t leave fossil records or DNA data so we’re not in the same position as trying to understand the evolution of bipedalism or the evolution of immune systems and so on 3 let’s move to evolution of language so if we take this question of course there’d be no kinds of approaches to it so we can try to study through you know syntactic trees and and breaking you know properties like infinite recursion that’s important I’m not saying is not we can try to study the you know organs of speech only under logical operators how did it evolve we could study you know the genes that may regulate vocalization but we also know that there are several thousands of languages on earth today that do not phonology and speech accents and so on and so forth so my claim is that there is a little domain here that hasn’t been studied so what is it two issues of meaning bubble reactions and Bodley productions in real time and how they’re

coupled to the environment now I’m not saying that this is the only thing which study my point is that there are certain things for which we’re losing explanatory power if we do not consider this therefore our sin is if we do that then we’re falling into unwarranted reductionism and we don’t want to do that for the sake of scientific hygiene so here’s like three impossible scenarios number one if you just look let’s say organs of speech and for nation and vocalization we know as I said the many languages that do not require that so in that sense we say okay now we got visualization let’s talk about something I would call that impossible scenario number one or something like okay we have grammar now let’s talk about something I will call that impossible scenario number two now if we look at gesture production we could also say well now we can pantomime and move our hands and bodies and we can gesture so now let’s talk about something impossible scenario number three now what can we study that how can we find some structure some constraints so in this very messy phenomena we can still look for something in particular so this is where I would like to suggest there’s certain things even though we hope we don’t have DNA j-town illogical you know evidence and so on we can sort of seek or look for what I would call here the living fossils language so for this I want to kind of focus on something that linguist play with this is very useful is the notion of obligatory nests so this is now adding constraints to study something and we see in grammar for example there is a opening at arenas in you know number marking or gender marking evidence shallot e-marketing and so on and so forth and I would like to ask a question is it only in grandmother we have this phenomena okay and in particular I want to address the issue of what happens when we deal with demonstratives okay why demonstrative well let’s look a little bit of what they are so well most of you linguist here you know much better than me we have for example so what’s interesting is that you have more production coming out like demonstrative determiners like I look I like those pictures or demonstrative pronouns I like those simply or demonstrative objects like at that place there at that time then now this is what is so interesting about diversities in fact as Diesel pointed out said the monster is actually generally so old that their roots are not etymologically analyzable in contrast to other closed class expressions they cannot be traced back to content words more important that is also that they serve as a sort of netic root genetic in the sense of generating new possibilities for example in many languages well at least now at this point here to Romance languages out of the distal you know demonstrated that you have developments like the articles illness loss or in French rule early and so on and so forth in other languages you have out of the distal demonstrative the generation of the third-person singular for example and so on and so forth and you don’t see the other way around it’s not like you have a language that would have certain kinds of pronouns and out of the third-person singular you get the distal demonstrative so it seems to go only one way so the most of these are ancient there are team illogically not analyzable in terms of other other class of words and they have played a genetic role and even today they seem to be universal so to me this is i propose a very good candidate for a living fossil the issue is that this comes with strings attached because in real world for language production the motives are environmentally coupled and i we came here they had a high degree of the obligatory nests or what I would call here so bad we’re in Japan

so Sabah standing for synchronised obligatory bodily action in environment now of course you can also say the word that for this your body there’s certain cases they’re more elaborated cases I’m going to talk about later the idea is if we go back to the original example I started to talk with you may need something like so in a real world we’re environment produced in real time which add constraints to the nervous system that is supporting this production so go back to the original example father says so she sold me this but she didn’t sell me this or that if you look at speech and gesture you would have so you need to know something else that this was produced with a blender that the person bought that this part is from the bottom of the blender it’s only when you put speech and gesture and environment in real world real time that you get a sense of what is going on in this case and this is a further analysis you can look and check Goodwin’s work now so the most suited then and these Sobers are quite they kind of go together in a certain way and this is what I want to propose here in this talk today so this is a quote not from 1934 kal bhula I repeat there’s no phonetic deictic sign that could do without the gesture or a sensory guide equivalent to the gesture of or finally an orientation convention that takes their place what is the moral here is that probably at no point in the evolution of language demonstrative could have just stand fully alone okay and this so an extension of this saga particular type is pointing and they’re pointing and the complexities that they entail and I would like to analyze this a little further take this well maybe it’s a hammer than this stone true alright so if you look about it this you know you have some sort of how do you know what is he talking about in this case we want to say what is this about and you have two hands and two hands are busy with tools or something both dealing with stones however in this case the cakes telling that is this no this other stone over here but the complexity is going to show little later is that in fact case proximal how about this one which is in this case Dandy’s tony stone tools doesn’t seem to be referring to any particular specific collection that has specific extensionality if you want to talk in terms of set theory looking at anyone they seem to be operating at different levels even though formally you can just say you have singular plural things to be looks a little bit more complicated so for this i want to focus a little more now on one side of the primate phylogeny and look at this particular phenomenon of synchronize obligatory bodily action when you speak in the case of humans all these extensions to pointing and associations with that so it is interesting that when you look at the behavior in the wild for great apes you may have things like sheriff ten of to use so aiming with the body towards certain specific places in the environment for certain specific actions but it seems that no one has ever for the moment is only one paper that reported with no pictures and no data it’s just a verbal reporting natural pointing in the world there seems to be something that humans are excel at and something that radiates non-human primates in the while at least problems and I’m going to address the issue of what happens in in captivity so looks like humans in all cultures from a very

early age they are able to deal with this problem of reference in space and dietetics pointings and bodily actions in real time and so on so this would bring me to the next section this synchronized obligatory bomb reaction and pointings and want to unpack more in detail so first thing it looks it seems that this is a distinctively human kind of phenomenon number two emerges very early no Tajani number three does not have a fixed morphology and apparently recruits multiple articulate errs so it’s very complex in that sense now has top-down influences or its culturally shaped so it’s not a genetically determined handshape that you would get and I will give some examples and the most important part that I would like to address today is that they in the in the wild in our own wild environments they occur in a very abstract way with imaginary pointings with non existing reference in the real world and so on so we want to know what is that about now if we go back to almost two million years ago the modern depictions of let’s say omo a ghast are usually points or illustrates particular species or as a pointing pointing you know animal question of course is there’s no evidence whatsoever but people tend to think that’s okay the pointing is already that oh well we don’t know so that absolutely no evidence but we could do today is do some comparative studies and this is when you start to see you know for example some people claiming well here you have a point in behavior actually we saw one of the toss in this particular conference well is this a gesture the question is is it a pointing and that we need to probably unpack a little more in order to understand what’s happening in fact this very picture comes from a paper in penis with Pollock and Duvall and they explicitly say nothing about pointing this is a juvenile chimpanzee trying to reclaim food that the dominant has taken away by combining the reach out of begging gesture with us with a silent parity face there’s no real pointing in there but some research actually tells us a little more about the potential or the question of production in in chimpanzees of pointing behavior so for the moment would say well who says they don’t claim that this is a pointing so I would like now to address some work done by Bobby Nellie this was published in various papers but it was kind of summarized in one of the book edited books but by one of the world leaders in pointing literature so teri Okita and this is actually quite interesting because when we study of this begging for food you kind of like you know so control experimentally certain aspects about that a lot of curious behavior of exploring so they they’re able to use the index finger for those things even though the hand morphology is not like feelings kind of in our resting hand we tend to have index come almost already sticking out in the case that the chimpanzees is not like that but they’re able to use it when it’s necessary so interestingly enough if you want to check for the productions of what you have that say to experimenters and then one is visibly not looking at the action and the other one is in four different in four different positions either blindfolded or mouth folded or with the hands covered on the ears part of our know the eyes or let’s say heartily looking or just giving the background so the behavior one that the chimpanzee comes out and begs for the food it would be essentially fifty-fifty going to one or the other with no particular preference so we go to the person that is blindfolded but you will get completely right when the person is either facing or not facing there’s something about front and back no errors no mistakes and in that case now interestingly of course for people who do research you see that chimpanzees you know able to follow without much problem you know get I guess so if you start looking all the sudden there they would follow the game so that is they’re

able to do with that problem so another condition is like having the experiments are looking this way or facing up the beginning is really 50/50 and with more and more trial that start to kind of increase more towards a naturally spontaneously would come directly from this different way of looking at the at the scene from the side of the experimenter interestingly when you have a condition like let’s say turn around but looking and turn around looking then again you have 50/50 kind of behavior so the idea that they’re looking or not looking is not apparently clear when it comes to the production of the begging or the production of this particular gesture even more interesting when you have a person facing that way by turning around with the eyes open or facing frontally with the eyes closed it would actually the first thing in this case the difference II would prefer the experimenter facing forward even though it has the eyes closed so in the production side of thing or this begging behavior at least we seem to have some kind of difference and we have to keep in mind these are adult chimpanzees in the in captivity and so this is way far from being in the wild now this another idea of researcher leading researcher in ingest reproduction Adam Kendall who said that gestures in certain ways the visible action as utterances and seems to be here that something kind of missing about the visual part of this particular phenomena how about comprehension well in the comprehension case there are all kinds of manipulations again the same you know to the objects you know sometimes it’s pointing to the other one is far away summarizing various manipulations really there’s failing in the comprehension of what is the pointing standing for or what is the reference in this case now I want to move then away to the second move move along to the second one about ontogeny so this goes back to my the work of my Liz Bates and with a lot of data showing that in fact very interesting is a dating gestures are produced before word production so you already have around 8 to 10 months the production of deictic deictic gestures and and then this precedes by 3 months almost the word production so it seems to be something that very early on just presented in captivity for chimps when it’s done with very young children there’s absolutely no problem in following or asking for begging production and so on and so forth now moving to the third one how about morphology so here we have a particular kind of behavior for which there’s no prescribed or specific form of of articulator organization so to speak so of course the most classic case is the one that comes from this sort of resting position so this would be like the typical way of pointing and as could be seen in different people some of them cannot stand each other but you know the idea that we stick out our index finger and that is pointing it’s not totally wrong in the sense that is very frequent and and highly visible but by no means is the way in which people all over the world point this is what I would like to have and then also we are very good at using other articulations to deal with that real time meeting all day all the constraints of real time so you can see all kinds of hand shapes in knot and you know you could see palms up you could see counter lateral with index pointing so the it’s a lateral with thumb so completely different muscular and hand organization or let’s say this also in satara Peters edited book by this is now Wilkins describing for example at the event in Australia different kinds of handshakes depending on what kinds of things we are pointing or talking about if it’s a surface extended you have a point you know handshape that would tend to kind of

calm down sticking the finger like that could be middle finger pointing if you’re giving directions it will be pan towards the interior with different hand shapes not at all an easy thing and with a lot a lot of variation now of course we can also point with tools which is something I’ve been trying to do here but this doesn’t work on this screen so I can and I did some eggnog Rafi in a very exotic country yesterday near the golden you know how this is I was in the bus number one and for those who were with me and then we have a guide using opportunistically you know pointing with a different handshape now using a tool you know music instrument and so on and so forth what is interesting about this particular tool is that you can over specify some time studying use a laser point because rubber point to this clock and I point there I’m being too precise so if I say see that clock there this point is good enough but if I go I can say see this me or the 11 or the 50 so what people do say okay I don’t want to be that specific so I you know move back a little bit because naturally the cone of reference would work but this here is over specifying sometimes okay more interesting is body articulations that are recruited head point and in many areas totally unrelated ears in the world lip pointing in Nigeria in Malaysia in Southeast Asia and other places in the Philippines in Latin America and so on so these are completely different articulate errs that are recruited with presumably with completely different you know areas of the brain dealing with this particular motor actions so here is like descriptions are you know full-blown lip points building had gay eyebrows different kinds of lip protrusion sometimes is the upper lip the lower lid sometimes you have lips parted sometimes you don’t so all those things are marking different kinds of things again in cultures when sometimes participants who have hands freely available so to speak but that’s the preferred mode more recently with my students former student now he graduated can see Cooper Rida we were doing a difference when we analyzed we were studying for other reasons and Papua New Guinea know a we were looking at sconce tools of time and all the sudden we found this particular kind of case which is called the not we calling nose pointing which is like a scrunching of the face in which cannot do that practice the nose kind of sticks out by moving the specific muscles and they can just point and pick you know certain kinds of things even though sometimes the hands are completely free so we have very different muscles involved in let’s say lip pointing you have the clerestories in them antalya that would allow you to you know move your lips like that in the case of the nose pointing you have the process which is that muscle that allows you to put this face and then the matter Lavvy superiores which is found they want to string their nose up and then it will stick out so very very different articulate errs putting in place in real time so here’s one example so you can see the complexity this is again high in the mountains in Papua New Guinea with no electricity no roads hard to get there and so just so you get a sense here so there you have about it’s very subtle of course I don’t know whether you’re able to see it but you can see in a very you know very subtle way over here the scrunching of the nose to point to something that is in there that’s this one note and then you have a head point for a look at general location and then you’re going to have another head point and now you have an eye gaze and pointing with a left hand so all these things in real time being manipulated in very complicated ways you have some extensions sometimes for grammatical roles and and semantic roles

I may absolutely go have this front face that is recruited for other purposes referring to small things and is known that in many languages the use of diminutive for example is recruited for preciseness so in Spanish you could say now so it looks like in this particular case if you based on the giraffes kiss analysis of the semantic network for small and child is related to all kinds of this is studying after 60 different languages and one of them is child’s more exactness so we believe now this is what we realizing is that sometimes when they have available in this particular culture that you know the pointing behavior they may want to either modify the pointing with the precision and in this case you would have is almost as if you were pointing like this with our hand now we combining articulate errs with romantic roles to specify not just a reference but also the exactness of what you’re pointing use the nose pointing culturally shaped as we said this is a fourth characteristic and we already mentioned variations of that so I’m not going to go too much into the details but what is interesting is that with certain kinds of hand shape you can only use it for certain kinds of words for example if you want to point to something that moves and say oh the toilet is there in this case you say the dogs going there so we have hand shapes with specific kinds of coordination and constraints of how the hand shape is supposed to be used and under what what constraints I’ll come back to the cultural variation in a second now the most important thing I would like to mention now other than all the issues about how often they occur and the ontogenetic features and so on is that in fact when we point and we produce this sort of demonstrative / so kind of behavior they occur in the most abstract cases we say oh the elevator is over there so we’re going through walls I parked over here the train station is over there so we have to somehow know what are we talking about how far are you talking about we point to things that are not don’t exist in reality like North for example many other ones like self pointing and we’re analyzed very briefly and then in particular other cases like metaphorical cases meant inimical cases part you know our whole relationships that need to be picked and understood that requires a lot of complexity from a common you effected motion and Afra and so on I don’t have time to go into all the details but I mentioned only a few here self pointing so we have for example student you can sometimes is co-produced with instances like I or sometimes with mine very different or sometimes in this case with the term himself so he himself wanted to do dissidents of that and at that moment there’s a co-production with self pointing why would that be doing some random you know ethnographic work some random people in Japan who were paid in week American dollars to produce this gesture you can see probably you know that for example the reference for self in Japan is not the chest tend to be much higher sometimes nose or maps for example so again we have a lot of variation the point is here is that when you have some points the reference could be we we Chileans love red wine and I point here all this will have 15 million people standing for this liking red wine or our society basketball players my parents very very complicated now here is the i nolan tommy was a speaker in one of and one of the previous conferences we have cases for example of the fence stops after the forests the equator passes through many countries so these are controls where static entities are conceived as being dynamic what about here pointing that only can exist with moat motion events and they can be 50 motion is produced with the dreaming travels through 211 okay how about

conceptual metaphors abstract again here’s an example okay so what do we have of interest here well all I want to show is let’s say what the the incredibly tight co-production so we’re gonna move here the cursor says when he said wouldn’t that be today at that moments at wooden that the handshape is already profiling wouldn’t that that’s the be wouldn’t that be today at that moment you have the stroke pointing down completely abstract reference and then they said stays there for a few hundred milliseconds that’s that two more all the sudden pointing something in front so the question is what are those reference standing for why is it recruited in real time in this particular way and this idea of course in conceptual metaphor theory at some point was postulated to be a universal that we can see the future is being in front the past behind but when I did work with the Aymara of the undies we found that in fact in this particular culture the opposite is the case so when people start pointing to the front when you have past events and past terms and behind them when they talk about the future I can give all the statistics and all the numbers if you’re interested in but most recently with the you know Papua New Guinea we discovered that even the variation could be even Wilder outside of egocentric space sagittal egocentric we found that in fact in this particular culture deictic time future past and present is actually anchored and grounded on topographic properties the claim of declivity of the terrain where past is conceived is down here and future is considered uphill and this is not just anecdotal data we collected tons of with all these kind of pictorial analysis and spherical statistics to summarize and predict the whole thing in the topography of the valley to actually see that when they’re pointing irrespective of the position facing uphill downhill or whatever the pointing goes downhill when is the path it goes uphill when is when is the future so again he will have very abstract production that you could see recruiting these pointings and conveying very sophisticated ideas here’s another case today tomorrow tomorrow after tomorrow and the day after tomorrow so if we go here this is only a head point and you can see that’s today tomorrow’s gonna the head is gonna go a little higher then the day after tomorrow is gonna look towards the top of the hill over there with the head even though the hands are completely available so to find to complete the confident discussion here what do we have what I proposed here is that the study of language evolution as I understand it it’s been sort of dominated or over-represented by what I would call here unwarranted reductionism in a certain way I find that unnecessary limiting and we need to avoid it we need to explain the whole domain of linguistic production not certain types so in this case I was proposing that we have the possibility of studying some kind of living fossil some niches of contemporary linguistic practices that can inform questions of language evolution in this particular case I was trying to focus on the properties of demonstratives as being very old and ancient and having all these incredibly rich capacities for being extended to more sophisticated forms the practice that a language here is inherently multi-model now where i could want to conclude he is a meaningful communicative drivers irreducible we cannot put it aside and this on three different levels at the micro time happening in milliseconds real-time production at the ontogenetic time child development and fellow genetic time in you know analyzing selective pressures that certain types of species to have this particular behavior for not others so what is probably going on we have gesture we have vocalizing may be cool evolving together with neural power not just those two I would claim co-evolved

with cognitive capacities for imagination abstraction and symbolization so if I’ve pointed in that door even though it’s spatial dices I have to pick some place of that door to say this is what I need for the entire door okay and if I say here this here could be exactly this place not where you are it could be here in Kyoto could be here northern atmosphere here on earth and so on and so forth we have to have a very flexible fast system that will be able to determine that so we don’t want to be in the position of it was a gesture first was a vocalization first what was at first I think we have to look for something different so what conditions made that possible well the likely scenario that I I want to propose here is a presumably language of old art of activities in small groups short distant communication not yelling at you know a mile away fast real-time want to view interactions one-to-one largely facing mutual interlocutors and probably circles multitasking semantically loaded die take bodily and facial actions co-produced with subtle vocalizations so what what does that mean what would be those conditions well here’s one is that we can see that this if you think for example there’s a long waiting period supported by increased body mass that in the case of humans is on the right top side of the office of the figure and then as Kazuo canoas pointed out when you look at for example the crying of babies you may have a sort of a progressive discrimination and coordination of action sort of semantic actions with real time again that this bodily interaction with mother would allow so we have substantial postnatal brain development in socially meaningful context and room for longer and Richard mother-infant interaction but there’s more there’s a dramatic dietary change when still needed to support increase in body mass so what do we know we know for example 1.6 minutes we already have evidence that there’s some you know sites with ancient heart and fire but it’s 800,000 years controlled fire so this is if you think about it is almost like four times the beginning of our species 200,000 years ago more importantly it’s about really control controversial findings is that four hundred thousand years fire was control fully okay and this allowed for something know which is cooking and cooking allowed for the production the consumption of new foods that were not available that we could not digest otherwise and that occurred about a hundred thousand years ago so now we’re talking about humans it takes about fifty thousand more years only to get things like symbolic painting so what happened here you have fire way before being humans meaning that fire is who we are and this actually changed our genome so if you look at the proportions of small intestines vs. colon in other non-human primates or rambutans and gorillas and chimpanzees the colon is way bigger than the small intestine is only in humans that the proposal has changed dramatically and that meant that at some point these activities with some kind of activity and researchers that suggested this fire actually allowed change in this particular species because of the control fire and cooking you have a completely different dietary activity which de-facto changed now the genome of this species and this I want to make a distinction from this kind of cultural activity this is now not just a constant cultural transmission now this is a cultural activity that is selecting for a new new genome so to speak that has this small intestine so absorbing nutrients from foods that you were not able to do and from which you need to cook so the new life with daily fire well it meant a new type of digestion with a much more efficient energy intake access to more foods that couldn’t do otherwise and the expansions to new territories so you cannot just depend on the little berries that you have nearby

you can go else and you can defend yourself from other you know species you can sleep on the ground when your body which is what happens with humans is not able to climb anymore with the same efficiency you need to be on the ground but being on the ground is dangerous fire would solve that problem and a new problem now we need to eat good food so there’s a lot of research showing that if we eat raw food only raw food for a little while we’re in trouble so we need to be eating cooked food so for our purposes in language all these conditions describe small groups and short distance communications fast real-time processing etc in fact by the time we have fire then provides a completely new different scenario we have a 50% longer day for social interactions with rich complexities with the same visible social in exchange with the properties that I was describing before facing circle multitasking cooking and so on and so forth and I would claim this living fossils and the motives and sobers were most likely already there when this thing happened and with that I say that that’s that thank you see some pathological cases where you have humans who are the city form sort of the fact you cannot produce an artistic production well try to address as many saying let’s look at certain things that may have played it before the world so I mean today we have people who and we could ask the question what happens with these people that’s a very interesting person I don’t think inform really the question of what would have happened in the origins describing which probably those people who cannot and cannot walk for a long time and that would not the suggestion activity or yeah for the question well I mean that the reason why I was involved visit to true wasn’t so much to say they cannot do it the reason my way in both this particular research was to say that this is not there’s another activity conditions in which you know these exist in the wire they’ve been in culture and they’re the human setting so it from a prospective yet we could talk about the details of background research inform certain kinds of things I don’t think impose the kind of origin that I was trying to try today in the sense that when we can have certain species doing something let’s say I’ve seen dogs skateboarding well we can teach doctor sick skateboard now the question is what does it tell us about locomotion dog things like that I think for the question here are looking for living fossils so I’m looking for

they have been there the origin the purpose of cycling this particular way who wants to say well even in those two seasons in captivity today it seems that is not directly something natural spontaneous that you could sort of follow you know that region over and I and our parents are cooking and importance of the cooking is the Agins you are in combination or so the point is that the cooking makes a group very taut and which makes the muscle could be changed and I itself in that and the change of the shape and the jewelry is earlier also be an important force to the recent shows that what happens in this morning testing and the kind of absorption how you know for example these idea when I don’t know you got so rocky the movie you know the boxer guy eating the raw eggs in the morning as well research shows that is not the best way for including any protein is out of eggs it’s much better if you cook them so we we’re now going to stop in this line of evolution which we have to compute and of course all that photo with the change of morphology small motors etc etc the point of the talk was to say that is to be four hundred thousand years in the very least that we are almost essentially daily with fire and that means sitting in circles extending the moment in which we interact like consistently and that change the genome and probably open up to be possibilities for interaction yeah more and more conventionalized so the next candidate I think without what are you talking about in all this campfire situation is probably a lot about gossiping and who’s sleeping with whom and and all that stuff although emotion I think it’s part of the content for sure here we’re trying to be point certain kinds of specific make cognitive mechanisms that would allow for imagination like metaphors and metonymy part-whole relationships and using the pointing you