Music Educator Profile: Ethnomusicologist Anthony Seeger of University of California, Los Angeles

my name is Tony seeker and I’m a professor of ethnomusicology at the University of California Los Angeles UCLA I’ve been here for about eight years and I teach both undergraduates and graduate students and advise dissertations on research on being undertaken all over the world I’m a specialist in the music of the Indians of the central part of Brazil called mater Grosso and I’ve lived in Brazil for about ten years and lived in an indigenous village there for about two with my wife and learned the language and settled in and exchanged music with them I learned their music and they also were really happy that we brought our banjo or guitar along so they could sing and learn our music too and that made me enough to musicologist in the sense I’ve been writing about that kind of music and other kinds of music ever since so the role of music is in that society is really quite important because that’s one of the ways that the society is constructed there are no traditionally there were no clocks there were no seasons there were no directions and music is what defines those music begins the rainy season music ends the rainy season the invasion if it’s still raining or start to be dry those are the way time is done and space is also clarified by where you make music where you don’t make music is a way of creating society and it’s a way of creating relationships among people you sing songs for certain people and ceremonies and then you don’t sing for other people and so through music which is a particular concrete way of relating to people they create a lot of aspects of their society it’s supposed to be daily activity doesn’t always happen every day but every morning supposed to begin with song in the men’s house pre-dawn let’s say about the time the morning star rises 4:30 or 5:00 was tough to a field work there I have to get up with them every morning and then get out there and sing and then they would usually be singing in the evening as well and when they were building up to a major ceremony and four weeks beforehand they’d be singing every afternoon and every morning and every night and and sometimes some solo singer would go singing all night long walking around and around and around and singing songs of solo songs for the whole whole village and the whole society in a sense to hear they use very few instruments of the kind that we think of the the major instrument was the voice along with a rattle and various kinds of rattles made from individual nuts or some plants put in clop you’ll shape thing but for the most part it was a voice what really mattered then was was voice much more than anything else they were only interested in playing the banjo that I brought and playing the guitar that I hang on the wall for anybody to walk in and pick up because what they really wanted to do was one-hour songs and so they could sing verse after verse of The Ballad Pretty Polly about a man who murders his lover without really knowing what it meant but because they liked the particular melody that it was in and they never picked up the banjo or asked me to show him how to play it so music is different to different people they think about it differently they teach their children how to sing and by making them sing from the time they’re very little I’m expecting them to sing and so children start participating in the in the major ceremonies as soon as they can walk pretty much and they learn by imitating and following their parents and they’re taught simple songs at first when they’re young and then the songs that they learn the solo songs get more and more complicated as they get older by the time they’re teenagers the young men are supposed to be able to sing and remember things hearing them once and then go out and sing them there are musical leaders there are some people who have a special ability to hear animals or fish or natural species of somehow or another and learn their songs and then teach them so they have their idea of composition is more like a radio it’s that that’s transmitted by nature and comes out of a human mouth and people learn it and those are often the specialists and ceremonies they know all the songs that exist and they also can introduce new songs that don’t yet exist in repertory it’s a society where there are new songs for everybody every time there’s a ceremony it’s what it looks like it’s been there forever but in fact it’s always changing techniques my approach pretty much remained the same even though they’re adding new songs and they specifically not started to play Brazilian music country music of farha and music a certain Asia and things like that because they see that it’s really different although they sing the songs of eight other Indian groups and they sing songs of anthropologists like me that have been there and and they draw the line at actually playing the instruments of other groups can you can you well I could let’s see there’s one about that’s one about butterflies in the certain season the butterflies go flying in rivers above just above the earth and they’re flying sort of in and out and this is talking about the intermixing of the rivers of butterflies flying it goes Oh yeah Khurana – you know Korra monkey Asura monkey wait wait I’m Bantam Romani MooMoo on a walk or a donkey Easter donkey wear a

diamond – ah money moolah Oh hey hoo hoo hoo hooey that’s a shortened version of a rather longer song but they do it in a group and it’s neatly syncopated with the stamping of their feet on the earth so it actually it’s it’s a rather neat bit of rhythm and and singing and they sing that especially during the rainy season that’s a rainy season song they don’t separate dance from music that’s the same word for both they don’t say that there’s dance and then there’s music and I think it’s party because every every song has its own way of movement with it and the movement is often creating the percussive sound that it’s central to the the thing that the the rattles may be tied to the lake and so stamping on the ground will shake the rattle at the right moment and yes the in South America and many other places in the world music and dance aren’t really separate they’re part of the same event and and they don’t talk about them much apart from one or another well all of the tsuya I’ve been talking about the suya Indians in central Brazil and all of their music is related to ceremonies somehow there is no they have no protest songs they have no lullabies when you want to put a baby to sleep you just go just but you don’t ever sing a song to it that’s not what’s done so so there you see music is very specific it’s about sacred things is about creating society and recreating relationships and so their music is kind of formal and they always paint themselves and dress themself in a particular way before performing I mean if you’re into a real performance then you take off your daily clothes if you’re wearing clothes stripped naked but certain ornaments on paint yourself red and black and whatever else and then you dance so a bit like people used to do for going to the Opera or playing in the symphony you would they would put on certain clothes in order to play that music and that’s true as well in many Brazilian Indian societies I think that my students can benefit a lot and do benefit from understanding music of other cultures you know if they’re going to spend most of their life playing jazz or playing music here in the United States the reason is that the particular part of the sonic spectrum that we use the particular sets of sounds that we combined in our own tradition it’s only one of many possible sets and and other societies have explored other parts of sound that we haven’t even thought about or hardly a thought about like the bipolar singing when you sort of sing an undertone you got the overtones or in the case of South American Indians who cut out all the instruments that they’ve ever heard they’ll don’t even bother with them cuz they really interested in the voice in the particular relationship the voices have with one another and that makes one think well gee that’s sort of neat maybe we could try that and we get a lot of people listening to the music of different parts of the world and then saying well that’s that’s really interesting that’s a way I’ve never thought of sound working and that’s I think one of the contributions of etham use ecology to music practice well that’s an old story in the sense that I was born into a family of musicians I have an uncle named Pete Seeger and have another uncle Mike Seeger and Lynott Peggy Seeger and so I was born into a family where in the older generation everybody sang my parents sang and my grandfather was the founder of society for the musicology and was a musicologist himself so I grew up as a kid singing and in the 1950s I discovered very young about six that that music could get you in a lot of trouble because my uncle was brought up before the house on American Activities Committee and then later processed in court for contempt of Congress for not telling people who he was seeking for and saying he thought he didn’t have to and so I I always thought well music is really interesting is that makes people angry and makes them scared and so it so I thought well that was a new aspect of music that one of the reasons that I can went on to becoming a psychologist was because if it’s that if it’s so powerful people get thrown in jail for it must be doing something important and so in college when I decided I up there are too many seekers out there making a living as performing musicians I think I’ll do something different I think I’ll I’ll study how it works and why people make it the way they do and that turn me twice at the musicology oh I’ve been playing banjo since I was 10 and I started on the violin because my grandmother was upon one of my grandmother’s was a concert violinist and and then went on to a bunch of other instruments but I never learned to play them so well I think I hit my peak probably in high school when I was playing more than anything else and when I decided to become an anthropologist and a student of music use then I just didn’t have as much time to play I was too busy reading books and writing papers and today answering email although I am teaching it on sort of supervising an ensemble of old-time at bluegrass music here at UCLA we have many ensembles in ethnomusicology running from Javanese they were revolving these gamelan to music of the Balkans to music of afro-cuban origins and all kinds of different music and I thought be sort of fun to revive a an anglo-american style which is also important and important sort of in the history of country music and ideas bluegrass and some of its precursors so I keep my hand in what I can it’s a

still hard to keep up with with playing when you’re trying to teach and keep up with your email people who study classical music I’ve become very proficient at a particular tradition which grew up in Europe and a couple of hundred years and they often have not thought much about the other sounds around the world and when they find them there they can be really excited by them and some of them become at the musicologists they already have the training and listening and playing music and others of them take some of that music and try it out in their own styles and become composers that refuse various traditions together music has been traveling around a lot for a long time but the fusion isn’t anything new people have been doing it for a long time the Sioux Indians in Brazil were mixing music from different places but it’s very very common now and I think the Internet is made sharing those fusions even easier than it ever before there’s a tradition in Western European classical music composers to look at the local traditions of the country that they were in and to make create compositions based on that music but but altering it in very significant ways to new harmonic structures and new from the larger musical structures that came apart partly because of the growth of nationalism in which different regions of Europe were trying to establish their own independence and differences of composers were adding to that and building on that but it also happened in the United States we’ve had composers building on American folk song in the 1930s and 40s what is happening now is somewhat different because people aren’t looking to their own traditions necessarily to create fusions they’re actually looking around the whole world the world is much more accessible than it was and and nationalism is in a sense being transcended by an international and global awareness of music and societies that wasn’t true so much in the past yes well the European classical composers took some aspects of Turkish music and made that into something they call Turkish and and they also took aspects of if they were in Germany they would take some Italian things and and composers moving around and playing music in different places there was a lot of learning very few people compose straight out of nothing they’re usually composing out of something and they’re often adapting things that they think deep that other people have done and today we’d probably get in trouble with copyright agencies for some of the things that the European composers were doing without second thoughts the fact that so much rather than as a ripoff I’m interested in in audio preservation in the future of the recordings that have been made we’ve got about a hundred years of a little bit more than hundred years of history in the recording industry and it seems that every format we invent is a little worse than the next one than the one before it in terms of how long it’s going to last we there’s a real danger that most of the music of the 20th century is going to be lost in the 21st century because it’s recorded on very fragile pieces of tape or or discs and there’s no guarantee that we’re going to be able to play them in 20 years or 30 years and if you look at how quickly the formats for music have changed in the last 10 years and video then use think well gee how are we ever going to be able to play things that we made 20 years ago when the systems are totally different and people were making the systems aren’t really thinking about how they’re going to recover the music that was on earlier systems they’re really trying to promote new systems ethnomusicology archivists think about this a lot because it’s our job running an archive to to preserve the music of the past not just to study it but also for the people in the future when the great grandchildren of the musicians want to come and listen to the music so that they can relearn their their great-grandparents songs and if we can’t play them then we’ve really failed one of our missions and I think the world culture will be worse for it if if we lose the memory of our past we have a real lack of resources for the future we won’t be able to recover that amazing way of singing that was reported once before everybody forgot how to do it because they were too busy doing something else but now I want to learn again so I think the whole world needs to pay attention to it UNESCO has a has created a day for sort of for the preservation of world music but I think every country needs to be thinking very hard about its own traditions every and if I save your country because most businesses don’t have time or money to worry about preservation their interests they have to make money they have stockholders and they have to make money they want to survive it has to be somebody else’s responsibility to say hey wait there has to be some responsibility for preserving these wonderful things that we spent so much time trying to accumulate and that people are so inspired by in the past the Library of Congress has a nice system for sort of designating certain recordings as landmark recordings in the history of of the United States and the idea is to call attention to how fragile those are and demand to make people think about their own collections why I have colleagues who have digitized their collections onto CD RS or DVDs who think that’s the end of the question but it’s not CDRs won’t last more than a few years the DVDs we know already start to deteriorate after two years so long-term preservation has to be done in some other way probably in some form of digital mass storage the way banks store

information large mass of information with people who spend their entire lives just making sure that that information the degrade and is constantly being migrated to future formats where it can be used i think audio preservation is part of ethnomusicology actually the first ethnomusicology grew up at an audio-visual Archive founded in 1900 in berlin the berlin phonogram archive and that’s because that was the first place you actually hear music from many places in one place and you could actually study music comparatively today there are many archives around the country the UCLA has Anitha musicology archive of its own but there are others in other places and all of them are facing similar problems with these wonderful recordings that were made over the past century that are today very hard to preserve and if we don’t act fast we won’t be able to preserve them at all well there are some projects underway to solve this and one of them is as projects do digitize and then store in large systems that that will be preserved for the future and transferred but it’s not a single it’s a very hard thing to do it for a small archive it’s much easy to do if you’re part of a larger system the Library of Congress has a very large system that is trying to put in place to preserve its recordings UCLA is part of the California digital library and so when we digitize something we don’t keep it on a hard disk or on just on that CDR we also put it in the digital library of the state of California which has a much better chance of surviving it has several sites it’s well protected and it’s a much better chance of surviving into the future and being used I think the real key is that when people themselves start looking into their past then we’ll see at an impulse for preservation the so-called long tales that the music companies are talking about today the indica meaning that recordings of the past actually will continue to have value I think archives are sort of thinking at the longest possible tale because in fact archives that find that people are coming Kaymer to archives for the early recordings they are coming for things they did 20 years ago or 30 years ago what’s really interesting are the things they did 90 years ago and they can’t remember anymore authority want to recover the way it was done because they’ve changed it and they want to compare and they they may not change back but they want to know what where they’re coming from in a way they’re going with their music so I think part of the part of the future of music archives and preservation is going to be the the use of archives by general public the industry is developing various kinds of formats that they hope will last a longer time one of those is an archival CD which is may possibly last longer than the regular CD there have been tests of how CDs are made and and the actual composition of the of the dye that’s burned underneath changes even though the name of the make doesn’t change in the name of the period and the only way you can be sure that you have any consistency within most CDs is by buying a whole lot of them at once and you assume they’re made from the same batch but it’s it’s not a very secure method and when CDs are burned that basically burns out the dying sort of makes makes little holes that act as ones and twos can be interpreted those are not very secure they some tend to widen over time and so it’s it’s we’re not very happy with CDRs as a preservation medium they’re okay for a while no one knows exactly how long has they haven’t been around that long we all thought that digital audio tape dat tape was going to be great turns out doesn’t last that long at all and so the denser the information gets packed more densely is packed that the more damage is done by any minors degradation of the material itself for a long time we were fortunate we had one type of tape reel-to-reel audio tape that seemed to do a really good job the only thing was every time you copied another or another tape you raised the level of hiss and noise and so eventually in the long term we all knew that we’re gonna have nothing left at the end but sound so digital is a great advance but it has problem as its own and has problems in the material it’s it’s story Dom has problems in the changing basic software underlying software that’s needed to play it I think today we’re mostly working around WAV files which which are non proprietary and we think will be there’s so many and it’s fairly easy to have to migrate them to the future we’re thinking about a certain sampling rate double the sampling rate on most CDs because the CDs are not the ideal sampling rate they’re they’re ideal for the being able to fit 73 minutes of music on but if you want that 73 the sound better it really is important to sample it twice as often at least and so they’re there and we can do that it’s just we can’t put it on CDs anymore we have to have a larger medium in which the story DVD in the short term but preferably getting it to a mass storage system where it’s actually being self checked because the large storage system actually checked themselves and so that there are they’re inevitable sort of random changes in things and bits get out of place and things like that but a self checking one we begin to see when when it’s got a problem and the replace they replace the tape you do some error checking on it and one error checks when there’s certain number of errors you replace it it’s hard to do that kind of checking with the DVD most people won’t

do it they’ll just make the DVD put it on the shelf and we found that in as little as two years you can lose 5% of those DVDs and at least in one case of an archive that was digitizing video it found that some of them weren’t playable even if they’ve been stored in very cold conditions after only a few years the most important thing for storing tape if you’ve got tapes cassette tapes or reel-to-reel tapes is humidity if you can control the humidity and keep it pretty stable that will go a long way towards their lasting longer until you find a solution you you want to have for them the same thing goes for keeping CDRs and DVDs it’s better to keep them dry and it’s better to keep them in the dark I often use a large picnic cooler with with some silica gel in it and close it up pretty tightly and that at least the picnic cooler keeps it from wide changes in temperature and the silica gel keeps it sort of relatively dry and you try to keep it from wide changes and that’s because the tapes especially every time they stretch when they get wet and they shrink or when they get dry and so every time they’re doing that they’re putting stress on that on the layers in between them CDRs also has several layers and the layers may interact with one another chemically that they’ll be much less apt to do sofas kept drying in the dark one of the courses I teach here at UCLA is about the music business and I teach it because I ran a record company the Smithsonian Institution for 12 years called folkways records I was his curator and I founded Smithsonian Folkways recordings and then worked on various ways to make it available digitally through global sound and I was convinced I am convinced that you can’t understand the music of the United States unless you understand the industry of which it’s apart because that industry has shaped the way songs are they shaped the length of the songs that shaped the instrumentation that’s possible it shaped the voice that has been used to various moments in the history of music and if you don’t understand that you’re talking about style as if it existed in a vacuum and it exists always in the industry so I have two two objectives in the course one is to help musicologists understand the music of the United States in the 20th and 21st centuries and then I also have a number of students who are in my classes where musicians who want to figure out well what am I going to do how do I make a living in this thing I’m going to be part of this industry how do i how do I get ahead and so the course has two parts one is a more historical part that begins in the 17th century with with early manuscripts and and sort of the changing of music through publication and sheet music right up to the present with a sharing of music on Facebook and MySpace and things like that and what I’m trying to do is is do both historically and also in the present I think it’s very important for musicians who are graduating less performers have some idea of what a contract is about how it’s written and what their options are for making modifications and how you negotiate things and if they’re coming out as performers with no idea of the industry this mean they’re going to make some very bad mistakes early on as many musicians have made when you’re when you’re young and innocent you often sign a contract that you only discover the implications of after you afterwards and it seems to me it’s very easy not to do that similarly it’s very easy not if you don’t understand what the royalty structure is and how it works on a record label to make wrong assumptions about what you’re being told I mean that would give you 10% royalty well 10% of what and only if you sort of have some abstract knowledge of it the kidney route can it really make sense and so I think making sense of things in it in a fairly simple way for the four undergraduate students can help them avoid major problems later on surprised as I traveled around the country talking in various music schools how little music industry is being taught in most music departments I thought maybe changing now but in the last 10 years at least there are places that producing hundreds of musicians and there’s not a single course on music law there’s not a single course on negotiation of of performance rights it’s not a single course on the role of unions and and and sort of what your options are in terms of becoming of a working professional and I think that’s a real lack because I think musicians once they get out there suddenly realize they have to know those things because and and we should be teaching them we should be helping them discussing it with them and working with him on it until eighteen nineties or so most music in the world was live you could only hear the same thing twice if you had a player piano maybe or some kind of music box and it really changed music a lot when it could be recorded because you could hear it over and over again and you could make one copy play it recorded once and eventually make copies that would that would be heard all over it did a number of things to music it shaped the length of song since you could only get about two and a half minutes or three minutes on first cylinder or a 78 rpm record because they were standardized as long suddenly became a standardized length and then people would hear them as assumed that that was the way song should be so everybody began to sing 3-minute songs because the technology is not because the music before had anything to do with three minutes and similarly there were other changes that happened with the limitations of of the sound a certain things certain instrumentation became more important and possible and a black

cylinder that wasn’t used before you have a crooning voice that was important for radio because the radio might could pick up a crooning voice better than of loudly projected voice and so you have all kinds of ways in which recordings and other technologies have really shaped the music that we hear today and the other things that happen is the diverse some of the diversity is lost and it’s not just diversity of musics of different parts of the world they used to be orchestras used to have a certain sound in Germany in a different sound in England a different sound in the United States and most of that’s gone today partly because they’re all listening to each other’s recordings and partly because of the the technology finding the best possible sound for each instrument and the idea that there is a perfection and we should all share it so some diversity is being lost on the other hand think of all the things would never happened if there hadn’t been recordings we would never have been influenced by musics of people that we didn’t actually see face to face and all kinds of things would be very different the last 10 years have seen a tremendous change in the way music is shared and learned and it’s coming much less from commercial recordings and much more from people sharing music on the internet and file-sharing or making their own music and sharing it that way I think it’s very exciting and I think it’s just another example of the kinds of radical changes that have happened over and over again in the history of the music industry from from publishing sheet music to to making player pianos that then went out when the sound of music got better and and various sort of changes in in style between the 78 rpm and the LP which could create a possibility for albums just constant changes in some people at every stage were going out of business and other people have moved in and made money people are listening to more music today than I’ve ever listened to in the past it’s just they’re listening to it differently in different ways and I don’t see that as a major problem for me personally as I see it as a problem for certain industries that may simply go out of business they may simply disappear because other industries are going to take their place it may be that it’s not an accident that some musicians today are signing not with record companies but with with touring companies with with with other agencies that are going to put their music on because the recording may not be the most important the commercial recording sold for profit may not be the most important way of getting the music around anymore it may be file sharing and live performances selling t-shirts so in tickets or it may be something that we haven’t even thought about it may be new ways of supporting artists it may be voluntary donations for the music as Radiohead is I think recently experimented with and I think if musicians can find a way to get that music out if they can find a way to make a living they’ll do it and the the the various industries that supported them in the past aren’t necessarily gonna be the ones that are gonna support them in the future in the last few years I’ve seen an increasing number of students making their own music on their computers at home and so you have home studios home computer creation and then dissemination of their own music that way in it in a massive scale so I think one of the things that happens is that the idea of making music becomes making music yourself and less with other people and another thing is that everybody does it and everybody can get heard which is something that has occurred recently because of the vast use of the Internet to exchange files on and it’s not people necessarily only exchanging copyrighted files they’re often exchanging their own latest music and that’s that’s a really active and important part of what I see here many of these students are themselves composers in a way that was and published composers cuz they’re doing to themselves in a way that was never possible before I think the importance of understanding the context of music is central to ethnomusicology partly because we when we play our own music let’s era specialists in European classical music we assume a lot of the context we know it’s made for it’s made for concerts and all those things and we don’t know that about a gamelan concert or something like that the musicology said well we really need to understand context if we can understand how that music came to be the way it is and why it’s being played by the performers that it is and things like that why people care about it in the countries so I think context is very important that’s why it’s sort of an anthropology asked different questions you don’t have to be in anthropologist to enjoy music you don’t have to be nothing musical just to enjoy it you can enjoy it any way you like it and people can often play it a little but if they want to understand how to really play it they really have to often do more research than just listening to a recording and reproducing the recording they have to and they often do they listen to many recordings and they may travel to the place and talk to musicians talk to composers or get on the internet and talk to musicians talking opposers and and in that way give themselves the context that allows them to do a better job of appreciating the music for what it is and understanding why it is the way it is one of the reasons I went to Brazil to do my study of the music of the indigenous peoples there was I wanted to get to a society that wasn’t part of the capitalist system I wanted to get beyond commodity I wanted to find out what music was where it wasn’t a commodity and and I had to go pretty far to do that and in a sense get beyond the frontier get get to a place where they don’t have any money at all and when there was no place to spend money if you

had it would take me weeks to get to a store for example if I ran out of something and weeks to get back in so and so I was really interested in that question is it different and it’s certainly different I mean the music is not commodified or hasn’t been I’ve commodified it myself with their request I’ve made an LP of their recordings and then a CD and a videotape as the DVD but but that wasn’t their request not because I and then because they see this happening around them but in a sense is quite different and I there’s a whole lot of local music that wasn’t ever very commodified you have a lot of people sitting around their houses singing songs washing dishes singing songs playing at local dances and they aren’t making money at it but it’s a way of making making society out of it so they side by side with our own commercial industry there’s also a large lot very commercial industry that’s that’s influenced by that industry but is also going its own route and people having fun making music that they aren’t ever going to make a penny out of it’s what they do after they’ve finished working all day or driving all day or whatever it might be not every culture in the world commodifies music but in almost every if you have professional musicians always have musicians who spend all their time making music then somehow they have to be taken care of and they have to be they have to eat and that implies some kind of communication on necessarily the sense of commodity of making many copies of something but in the sense of somebody supporting it and very often the political leaders or patrons of some kind of support or churches or religious groups of supported musicians when you get to certain moments in the history of European music you suddenly reach a moment when it’s actually the printing press and the ability to sell scores and copyright then that sort of make money by selling scores that the composers begin to make a different kind of living off their music and then as you so they aren’t necessarily needing patrons anymore because they have other ways to make the music they can sell the sheet music or they can sell their cell there but their own performances and things like that and that changes over time but it’s certainly the commodification of music becomes particularly acute with the publication of recordings where you suddenly can make business of recordings answer and those really are commodities but a whole lot of musicians never make recordings never made recordings some of those are put out of business by these new changes in technologies when the record industry hit the 1930s we suddenly had a depression around the world and many record companies went broke and the record industry as such as an industry was partly saved by the jukebox which which went into bars all around the country and you could put a nickel in and you can get a song played back and then they made a lot of money on jukebox sales but at a time when no one else could afford to buy records but they get forward to play them play at a time and that that put a whole lot of working musicians out of job of course because it was a whole lot cheaper now but you’ve box in your place and actually pay anybody to play there and so so these changes of the industry and commodification have put a whole lot of people out of work there’s no question that a lot of working musicians are today being put out of work by by disco and they invite the use of discs and instead are people take people take their iPod and do the party instead of bringing a band to the party but that’s always been happening it’s it’s it’s people wring their hands and say the world is coming to an end the world isn’t coming to an end it’s been coming to an end ever since the beginning of professional music it’s always been changing and people have always lost money on it and other people have always made money at it and musicians still actually play and they still want to be musicians people still have invitations in spite of all all these things that are that are changing for them and I think that’s exciting that they do I hope we have a society which is worth and appreciated for people being musicians in and and I hope that if musicologist will understand what this process is all about and helped the rest of the world understand it too well as person comes to me says well what is that the musicology and how do I find out about it I often recommend that they look at a couple of nice text books have already been written because they were written by people were fairly thoughtful about it and and there’s one by K shell ma on soundscapes and what she doesn’t identify music with the region but actually talks about how music is shared and used in different societies sometimes I recommend them to some books by Bruno nettled was perhaps the most famous Etha musicologist a he’s written more books I think that most of us and he has written a number of textbooks on tilith musicology and there’s this a nice one on 31 essays and issues and nothing musicology I think it’s called sometimes if they say well what’s it like to study the music of another place I recommend my own book which is called y su Y sing and it has a CD in the back I have a DVD that I hope will go in the back of the next edition which I think gives you an idea of what it’s like to go to a place where music isn’t a commodity and how music is used really rather different ways for different things because it’s not used to make a living it’s used to do something very profound for the society and has nothing to do with fun in the sense of it’s it’s its music isn’t something that’s it’s sort of optional it’s something that everybody does when they do it for certain reasons sorry I sometimes recommend in a sonography like that of a really different kind of music and if they want to learn about the music industry why they’re there watch

of really good books on that I’d often recommend Passman spoke on the music business and because he’s some people write better than others and I find that students can actually relate to people who write with a certain sort of sardonic tone and Passman does and I think I’ll be recommending them to your website because there’s a whole lot of information there I think the the exciting thing about now is that most of them are interested already find your website even before they come to see me but when they do and I often point people in different directions different kinds of sources there are some books there are some audio resources and there are some great things on the web that already can can help them think about these things people have often asked me whether in the past there were more people making music because one of the things that the music industry is that as we listen to more music that other people make then we make ourselves in most cases I think that’s happened on the one hand I think this if in the past many families had a piano in their living room or in their cell on some of some of them could play it some of them couldn’t but they would get around the piano and sing and perform themselves that was party because the music that was available was sheet music you had to play it or you put a player playing out there that actually had little knobs that would play it for you I think today that’s changing back a bit today people are actually making more music than they used to if you my Uncle Pete Seeger used to lament that no one’s sang anymore so we had people sing in his concerts but I said Pete have you ever been to a rock concert people are singing the whole time they can’t hear themselves necessarily but they’re up there and they’re singing the songs as they know them by heart and so I think there’s more music being made today than the people give other people credit for in the United States I think a lot of people are making it and I think with computers and file-sharing a whole lot more people are making it they can post their own latest composition in their own latest song and it’s the its stimulus to compose and write and get it out there and it’s also a mechanism that allows more people than ever possible in the past to do so it’s tough sometimes to be a parent because your children are always making decisions and you aren’t always sure that they’re the smartest decisions because you see the world from your perspective in your generation and your own profession and so when your child says I want to become a musician if you’re not in a family of musicians like mine it can be pretty scary and I think the main thing that to think about as a parent is that your child may be a really great musician and they don’t have to sound great to you to actually change the world I don’t know what Bob Dylan’s sound that his voice changed the whole way of thinking about writing songs and singing songs and that’s one person having a huge impact and he actually heard Woody Guthrie and it was Woody Guthrie that that sort of influenced Bob Dylan to then influence the world so you have people who impact other people in ways that are profoundly important and your child could be one of those the other thing is that people don’t make a decision about their whole life they may be a musician for a while and then they may decide they’re gonna go work in the music industry for a while or write software or or become a great painter people do a lot of different things in their lives and when my students say what am I gonna do with my life I say well just posturing on what you get to do next in your life because after that you may say I’m gonna do something different and a lot of musicians do some musicians open restaurants some musicians I know work in radio I think musicologists are all over the place and musicians are all over the place and I think the world is better for them and I certainly think it would be a shame if Noah could become a musician because there was no way to support yourself as a musician I think in that case we have to rethink the way society and not also business worked but at the moment the ambition of a coming musician is is something that parents should be delighted with and also sensible about and also maybe suggest they attend some music business and things like that so they have some other skills in addition to performing and composing that they can use to used to used to use their composing in music and also use as other ways of making a living when that may be interesting and fun