HES Seminar: Jonaki Bhattacharyya "Edge Habitat: Applied stewardship amidst biocultural diversity"

Matt Williamson: Okay, everyone. Welcome to our friday edition of the interdisciplinary conservation seminar series Matt Williamson: Hosted out of the Boise State human environment systems group. My name is Matt Matt Williamson: Williamson, I’m an assistant professor here Matt Williamson: Before we get started, I just want to bring your attention to a few logistics, we are recording the session Matt Williamson: Once I clean up the video I will be posting it to the College of Innovation and Design YouTube channel and sending a link to the email that you use to register Matt Williamson: To start out everyone is muted and we’re asking that you turn off your camera during the presentation is to make the streaming easier Matt Williamson: When we get to the end of the talk, please feel free to turn on your camera in your microphone so that I can see. If you have questions. If you have questions during the top, feel free to post them in the chat and I will bring them up at the end Matt Williamson: Lastly, you can find. We’ve got another. What do we have like four more weeks of the semester left. So we’ve got a Matt Williamson: Great group of talks ready to round out the year you can find that schedule at the link posted here. Lastly, Matt Williamson: I don’t know about many of you, but I haven’t slept a ton over the last four days. And so I imagine that between the pandemic and the summer of fires and an election that just doesn’t seem to want to end Matt Williamson: It might be a little bit tired, maybe a little bit stretched, then we just ask that you be kind to each other. You kind of yourself Matt Williamson: And we’re really grateful that you chose to spend part of your day today with us. I’m also extremely grateful to welcome our speaker for today, Dr. Donna key Bhattacharya Matt Williamson: Johnnie Keyes, an ethno ecologists conservation scientist and environmental plan. She currently works in several roles. She’s the management planner and technical advisor and Jill Of All Trades for Matt Williamson: Jessica and indigenous protected area of the show code and First Nation communities. She’s the coordinator for the Matt Williamson: Digital guardians technical support team with nature united the Canadian arm of the Nature Conservancy, and she’s an Adjunct Assistant Professor at the University of Victoria Matt Williamson: janyk he has a PhD from the University of Waterloo and over 15 years of experience collaborating with indigenous peoples throughout British Columbia and other regions of Canada Matt Williamson: And wildlife management stewardship initiatives and indigenous protected areas Matt Williamson: She specializes in helping communities to develop management plans bio cultural conservation strategies that are based in Indigenous ways of knowing and relating to the land junkies the recipient of the Matt Williamson: Wilberforce fellowship and conservation science and perhaps equally importantly, she makes a practice if eating our field trees hot scones made on back country wood stoves with homemade jam Matt Williamson: And if that’s not the best introduction, I can give welcome john Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Thank you. Thanks, and Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Thanks to all of you to nurse here, I Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Appreciate being able to be hearing a roll forward on this, on this slide here. It is really disconcerting Jonaki Bhattacharyya: For me still. Every time we’re having events like this and I can’t see your faces and I can’t be in the room with you so Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I really do appreciate you turning up as Matt said what a week Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And hopefully we can just hold this space for the next hour to Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Explore some ideas together that I hope have oddly some resonance for you Jonaki Bhattacharyya: During tumultuous times make of it what you will Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So it’s, it’s a real honor to be here Jonaki Bhattacharyya: In my part of the world’s up here and I’m on the west coast of Canada on Vancouver Island. It’s Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And in my discipline Jonaki Bhattacharyya: It’s common. I don’t know if you do this, wherever you are Jonaki Bhattacharyya: We acknowledged the territory that we’re on. So I am coming to from the unseeded territory of the song Hayes Esquire, and with such people Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And I won’t get into that that word unseated but I find this is a moment to not just pay lip service to that, but to actually reflect on the land where we are and reflect on Jonaki Bhattacharyya: The ground that’s beneath our feet on the history of the many other foot feet that have traveled on that land before us that do currently beside us and that will in the future. So wherever you Are Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I hope that even though we can’t go around the room. You can also think about the place that you’re in and the other people that dwell there with you Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So my approach to today’s talk is really that we’re just going to take a walk together

Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I’m going to share some insights from the work that I’m doing and Matt also asked me to share some Jonaki Bhattacharyya: personal reflections on my career path and how it has how it plays out in these settings. So I hope that we can kind of find that balance between talking about issues and talking about how we approach working in the realm of those issues Jonaki Bhattacharyya: In the field that we share. And I’ll just invite you to reflect on your experiences. And where you see resonance in this and I’m really interested for feedback Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So, as Matt said he told you my name Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And my ethnic background is that my I’m a first generation Canadian my parents Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Moved here in their late 20s. My dad is born and raised in India. So my name is a Bengali name. There’s an entire village of cherries in a really specific place Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And my mother is English and this will this will come to play out through the talk today because Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I find that who I am. I used to joke that I’m like a colonial mix and that really influences my work and the approach that I bring to working across cultures and with indigenous peoples here Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I’ve also straddled the social sciences and the natural sciences throughout my education and continue to in my work Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And I also continue to keep one foot in academia and one foot in Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Work sort of the doing of conservation out on the ground. So this concept of edges Jonaki Bhattacharyya: That that I decided to talk about today plays out in literally the blood in my veins in the work that I do and and how I approach it, and it plays out in the issues that we’re all dealing with today Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So I’m going to start by just sharing a memory to kind of Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Ground us in this Jonaki Bhattacharyya: About 10 years ago I was paddling a canoe around this lake that you see at sunset, which has something to do at the end of a long field day when I was doing my PhD Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And I had seen I’d had amazing grizzly encounter that day my luck with to cubs totally oblivious to myself and I feel the system Jonaki Bhattacharyya: swimming across Australian cubs splashing and playing and mama keeping them in line and it was one of those amazing moments where you’re just so glad to be alive and you feel so lucky Jonaki Bhattacharyya: To be doing what you’re doing and I was paddling in a canoe around this lake just kind of, you know, we go out. Listen to the loons visit the beaver dam. It’s at the end of the lake Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And I was thinking about how right I felt there. I felt alive and like this is my place. I’m doing the right thing, just in that moment Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And yeah, I was also thinking, Isn’t it weird that Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I don’t think either of my parents have ever paddled a canoe, let alone in a place remote where you might see grizzly bears. And then I thought, Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I don’t think any of my ancestors probably really certainly not in recent history would be in a position to paddle a canoe. I mean, they probably actually wonder what I’m getting out of this, you know, the mosquitoes that like Jonaki Bhattacharyya: The cold and and i thought i just thought it was really strange that I could place on which I felt like I’d come home and was really alive and I felt really Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Most like myself, there could be so far in some ways from Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Who I am in other ways, from where I come from. And the reason I wanted to share that with you is because I think it brings us into this idea of edges of edge habitat of finding our own habitat of who we are when we step into habitat conservation and working with other people Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Because this is also a landscape where there are people who have been living there for Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Thousands and thousands of years. So when they think of it as home they’re coming from a totally different place than me Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Like they’re literally, physically their bones are made of this place they drink the water they eat the food that grows here. So I just, I find that really fascinating when thinking about diversity

Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Now, when I talk about Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Edge habitat Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I’m this is a nod to a paper that is quite old now 17 years old came out in 2003 Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And it was written first author is a woman who was my mentor, Professor Nancy Turner was national ecologist Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And I know there’s lots of ways in which we use the word edge ecologically so edge effect is usually thought of as not a good thing, right, you’re talking about fragmentation usually some forms of degradation often threats Jonaki Bhattacharyya: To a particular system Jonaki Bhattacharyya: She and her co authors were coming at it from a different angle. So they’re talking about edge habitat as zones of biological and cultural richness Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Because this where systems meet overlap interact intermingle and you can have incredibly diverse but bio diverse regions. You can also have culturally diverse regions in place like this and there are suggesting that these can be the seat of Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Resilience, because the more diversity there is Jonaki Bhattacharyya: The more adaptive capacity, you can have Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Great paper. If you ever want to read it. Excuse me Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So an example of that. This is, this is very close to my home, although we’re looking at the large mecca of Vancouver there in the lower the lower corner Jonaki Bhattacharyya: You can see two bodies of water mixing the so that silty pale water is Fraser River water it’s meeting ocean water and you can literally see a line in the in the water. When you can see this from the ferry, when you go between Victoria and Vancouver in British Columbia, quite often Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And you can see how that’s playing how it’s spanning out from the river delta Jonaki Bhattacharyya: In that photo and yet what you can’t see, you know, often when we look at edges we see the line Jonaki Bhattacharyya: But what what we also know from this region. This is just one of many examples is Jonaki Bhattacharyya: The Straits the Salish Sea around here. This zone. The where the Fraser River water mingles with ocean water is incredibly biologically rich and it’s it’s the mixing of those temperatures, the mixing of the nutrients in those different bodies of water that has led to that richness Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And interestingly, this area historically was also always a meeting place for people from different First Nations up and down the coast Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Who would come to trade. So you always have have cultural richness here as well Jonaki Bhattacharyya: This isn’t so I wanted to just mention that these moments and cultural mixing was a photo of some colleagues of Jonaki Bhattacharyya: In a community. I work with you can see indigenous elders, you can see visitors from different backgrounds and if you have a look way off in the in the background in the left there Jonaki Bhattacharyya: There’s the edge of a horseshoes game in which the chief of the first nation is playing on the same team is that RCMP officer police officer standing there, with the yellow stripe on his pants Jonaki Bhattacharyya: zones of cultural mixing can be incredibly Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Important diversity, leading to our ability to be resilient and I’ll get into that a little bit more Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Looking at the map of British Columbia Jonaki Bhattacharyya: This is not the usual map you see again Jonaki Bhattacharyya: You’re looking at a map that was created to try to depict some of the indigenous peoples of this province and their territories largely by the language here. This is not nations. There’s many more nations than actually show up here Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And you’ll notice that the photographers chose to use soft edges because there have always been these edges these zones of overlap Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And this becomes an issue and how we draw boundaries around protected areas now Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Including the one that I work on Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So taking a moment to think then about resilience Jonaki Bhattacharyya: It also involves the ability of a system to adapt and recover. This is a photo from my hometown, where I am right now and you can see late 1800s. The houses of

Jonaki Bhattacharyya: The local some of these people, which are not there today Jonaki Bhattacharyya: They do they live, they were moved on reserve, they do still live in town Jonaki Bhattacharyya: But not they originally inhabited the zone, that’s kind of the central business district of this town Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Sorry for the blurry photo there Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So what I want to Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Land, all of these concepts of resilience and edges in is the story of my work sharing some of the work that I’m doing on an indigenous protected area initiative called dusty coat Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Matt mentioned where we’re in the midst of changing its name. It’s called dusty coat travel Park and the new name is doing away with the English words all together so dusty coat the plug on the fog on means it’s there for us Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So this is giving voice to the show, quote, when people’s relationship with their land Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Saying, well it’s there for us. And I’ve always found it kind of interesting how you can pronounce that you can emphasize that sentence in different ways and you get different meanings from it. So if you say Jonaki Bhattacharyya: It’s there for us that’s them protecting their right to use that land their constitutional right, their inherent right if you say it’s there for us Jonaki Bhattacharyya: It also suggests the relationship that they have with that place because that land has always been there for them it, it provides for them like Jonaki Bhattacharyya: A family member, it gives them food sustenance protection warmth everything they need. And in fact, what they actually call their community zones, but they look after his caretaker areas. So they also see themselves as caretakers of that land Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And to take a moment and get into Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Talking about indigenous protected areas and again when I’m kind of discussing how to approach this talk Jonaki Bhattacharyya: We discussed some backgrounds, so bear with me for a second because I’m actually going to give you a little bit of history, you might already know it, I know you’ve had Feisal Mila giving you an awesome talk on I PCA is indigenous protected and conserved areas Jonaki Bhattacharyya: But let’s recap, so we can get on the same page, some basics and in history, certainly in the Canadian context, in case you’re not familiar Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So it’s important to know that Jonaki Bhattacharyya: In Canada, Jonaki Bhattacharyya: We have a mixture of treaties with indigenous peoples and we have also unseeded territory, so this is particularly in British Columbia, where I work and in this area, you’re looking at in the photo right here Jonaki Bhattacharyya: The land was never given away. It was never conquered it was never relinquished. It was never signed away. It was never sold and this is what we mean when we say unseeded territory Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So effectively, and this is something is playing out in our court system over time Jonaki Bhattacharyya: The province Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Are crowded crown governments are acting illegally when they are making decisions on that land in many ways. It’s just that one jurisdiction has overlapped with another Jonaki Bhattacharyya: It doesn’t make it legitimate. It just means that it’s there and it’s playing out and now we’re living with it because we all live within that system Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So this fundamental land problem has it dates back to the time of settlement in British Columbia, even in areas other parts of Canada, where there are treaties. There’s certainly disagreement about what was being agreed to Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Because each party can assign the same agreement that had very different conceptions about what they were actually agreeing to so that’s playing out to Jonaki Bhattacharyya: However, it’s important to know that there are also constitutionally protected rights for indigenous people in Canada to use their land Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And Jonaki Bhattacharyya: They Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Often are not being it’s not happening. They’re having to go to court to defend their constitutional rights Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I’m taking way longer than I meant to. So I’m going to move on Jonaki Bhattacharyya: But when we talk about protected areas Jonaki Bhattacharyya: It’s really key when working in this field to realize that

Jonaki Bhattacharyya: A lot of conventional national parks provincial parks have been experienced by First Nations people by indigenous people as an exercise of state authority Jonaki Bhattacharyya: They were often displaced kicked off their land for those parts to be created. So as much as as a conservation is Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I mean, personally, I’m grateful in many ways that we’ve drawn some lines. We’ve made some edges to earn industrial development of the land. They have not benefited indigenous people in the same way as other ones. So indigenous protected areas are indigenous lead Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And that means that they are Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Stemming from the initiative of indigenous governance. First Nations, they often have a triple bottom line of ecological protection cultural revitalization and economic sustainability Jonaki Bhattacharyya: As part of the parks or the protected areas mandates. They may not be all pristine. They may be indigenous peoples protecting their territories, even when they’ve been impacted by industry Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And it’s also about protecting people’s rights to use the land which also differs from conventional parks in many cases where there has not been the ability for people to hunt, fish harvest in the way that they would Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So I’m going to flip forward a little bit into dusty Cole. So you can see where it is down on the side there. And if you can see my cursor, but we’re looking at Victoria where I am. Washington state here so central BC. This is the boundary for dusty coat Jonaki Bhattacharyya: There’s a lot of overlapping jurisdictions around there. There’s provincial parks. There’s recognized land which the nation has title. There’s mineral 10 years forestry 10 years and many other parts to it Jonaki Bhattacharyya: At fundamentally the reason they’re declaring this Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Is in response to industrial pressure Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Particularly mining pressure Jonaki Bhattacharyya: They wanted to create a proactive vision for their own future, as people Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I’m looking at the website, which if you’re curious, you can go to to find out more about the work that that we’re doing there Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I mean that one shot. First I want to just show you, give you a sense of some of the products, we’ve produced Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So this is what what’s actually involved when you start doing it is draw the line on the map start the negotiations and then a hell of a lot of management planning work. So we’ve had started with an inventory of past you know in carol orr: Ecosystem nation planning Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And climate adaptation plans Jonaki Bhattacharyya: You name it range manager plans forestry stewardship plans watershed management plans full inventory of those gap analysis and into the planning Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Strategy reports, who needs to do what to start actually creating this we’re doing this from the ground up. And something that Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Many people don’t realize is for an indigenous protected area. There is no manual. There’s no recipe book for how you create one. So you’ve got a group of people who are having to figure this out on the fly Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Checking in with the community Jonaki Bhattacharyya: A lot of community consultation and actually getting community members voices involved in what the the objectives for the park are, how they want to see that land in the future Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And then you need to produce the communication products, which is what these ones on the bottoms are and I got those little mixed up on the slide there Jonaki Bhattacharyya: To take it back to the community and say, did we get this right Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Because when producing when doing this work for a community I’m that outsider. Right. I don’t live there. I don’t speak their language and not have them so I can do a lot of heavy lifting in terms of this kind of reporting Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I can, I can put all my ethnographic skills to bear to do the interviewing and pull out the themes and listen across culture to what they’re telling me is important and how they relate to that land but I gotta take it back and verify. I’ve got to ask. Did I get it right Jonaki Bhattacharyya: There’s incredible Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Value to this region in terms of, you know, the natural ecological qualities that people want to protect

Jonaki Bhattacharyya: The cultural relationships, food security, even huge part of it Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Language is rooted in place there Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And this is where you know you wouldn’t necessarily see this in another form of parks, but for an eye PCA and indigenous protect Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Protect protected and conserve area Jonaki Bhattacharyya: A solar farm starting to think of what the clean conservation economy look like and how can the communities that are based in resource areas generate Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Revenue for themselves Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And then you’ve got natural, natural and human disturbances that start to happen Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So I’m happy to come back during the question and answer some of the logistical things about what dusty coat is, but I think Jonaki Bhattacharyya: We might cover more ground if I actually talk a little bit about, okay, how does this play out. And what are some of the insights that I think it’s useful to know Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And the first one is Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Who’s actually doing the work Jonaki Bhattacharyya: One of the ways that these differ in my experience Jonaki Bhattacharyya: From conventional parks is these are very small determined teams doing this work. So literally, this initiative is driven by two communities have about 400 people each Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Each of them has an elected chief and between two and three councillors so that’s their leadership and elective roles Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Not all of those positions are paid. So some of the counselors are actually working day jobs as things like school principals and loggers Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And they’re trying to govern their communities off the sides of their desks Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And and the chiefs who are driving this initiative are dealing with everything from literally breaking up a fight in the parking lot during a meeting to national level negotiations with our Prime Minister Jonaki Bhattacharyya: On issues related across the board. Every portfolio in the government that you can imagine the same THREE TO FOUR PEOPLE ARE HANDLING. SO health, housing Jonaki Bhattacharyya: resource use Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Energy all of it. Same people, and these are the same people that sit down with the table and are driving this so there’s we have a staff of one coordinator myself and then the chief be elected Houston councils that that are driving this initiative. And so it’s really important to recognize Jonaki Bhattacharyya: How different that is Jonaki Bhattacharyya: At the same time, it’s an opportunity because we’re really taking direction from the community and the elders in the small environments Jonaki Bhattacharyya: The reason I wanted to show this slide of the fires in particular is to recognize also that those things people are under tremendous pressure all the time Jonaki Bhattacharyya: It’s, it’s, it’s kind of like they’re on the defensive because of the resource industrial pressure that’s on them. And I know they’re, you know, our national parks are to with with that kind of pressure that I think is something that they share in common Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And I wanted to mention briefly a little story in Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Well, actually I’m going to back that up where you see this firing 2017 and I think a lot of you can relate to these fires after the year that we’ve had Jonaki Bhattacharyya: 2017 was the largest fire year we’d had in a long time in British Columbia and these communities driving this travel part actually were literally surrounded by fire. They were evacuated wondering if their homes were going to burn up the government offices were evacuated Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And our provincial government took the opportunity while the government indigenous government offices were evacuated and in a state of emergency Jonaki Bhattacharyya: To issue exploration permits for a line in their territory Jonaki Bhattacharyya: For a minute that had been

Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Twice rejected by our own environmental assessment process at the federal level Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So just for context that never happens like people joke about our environmental assessment process basically all roads lead to. Yes. And in an unreal victory, these two communities had actually thought this project off twice and then when they were evacuated Jonaki Bhattacharyya: The more permits were issued Jonaki Bhattacharyya: This is in the dusty go travel park the mineral 10 years the aspiration permits are for within the declared area of dusty call. It’s one of the main motivations that can be had to create it Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So fast forward to 2019 Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And we find ourselves in this meeting, trying to plan we’re doing having a strategic planning meeting for Jessica permits are still holding Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Nations have been in court. Everyone’s sticking injunctions that the mining companies seeking injunctions about against the nation, trying to keep them from blockading the nation’s seeking injunctions against the mining company trying to stop those trucks from rolling in Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And once again Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Our strategic planning meeting for this protected area gets interrupted by an emergency meeting because the trucks. Another injunction was turned down the trucks are ready to roll. It could be three days, they might be in there and we’re sitting in the Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Community Hall Jonaki Bhattacharyya: At this point, where the nation, saying, Do we blockade to protect our land, or do we trust the court system Jonaki Bhattacharyya: That says you need to have clean hands. You shouldn’t break the law when we haven’t yet ruled on whether this can go ahead Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Another emergency injunction, and they’re also literally trying to figure out whether the snow up there is deep enough to hold those trucks at bay until it can be heard in court. And I found that so pointed because we’ve been fighting and I’ve been personally involved in this fight Jonaki Bhattacharyya: For quite a while Jonaki Bhattacharyya: 10 years and I found myself crying in that meeting at what these people were being put through Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And to my surprise, you know, they, they just dug in and handled it. They, they were absolutely determined that that mine was going to happen, but they were also cracking jokes at lunchtime and I thought how am I don’t even have the right to be crying right Jonaki Bhattacharyya: How is this happening in and realize they’ve been frickin living with this their entire lives like they are planning an indigenous protected narrative. In spite of this kind of pressure Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And I think that’s really key to realize that they’re doing it because of that pressure in spite of that pressure and through that pressure and still holding that line. And that’s the kind of Jonaki Bhattacharyya: You know, work that that is going on. So when when doing cross cultural planning work Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Um, Jonaki Bhattacharyya: You know, a big part of our role is to leverage Jonaki Bhattacharyya: You know, to leverage my education, for instance, as I work for them to help them make the decisions, they’re going to make. So what does indigenous lead means. It means that they are making the decisions Jonaki Bhattacharyya: They are whenever possible were employing, you know, indigenous people. First, it means that they have their boots on the ground with guardians Rangers Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And it means that the community it’s rooted in their culture. So I find that I’m bringing to bear. Yes, my ecological science expertise to help Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Research and bring in information and manage work that’s being done there, but also the social science. The ethnography training I have, I find really useful Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Realizing this given day. It’s not just the content. It’s not just like I’m just sit down and interview you and try to understand the culture that you’re telling me about I’m realizing that those skills are actually super useful in meetings because Jonaki Bhattacharyya: In contrast to my role when I was in a university setting in this setting Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I have to leverage Jonaki Bhattacharyya: My listening skills, my ability to hear Jonaki Bhattacharyya: For themes and pull out the kind of qualitative analysis, basically in meetings because I’m working with people who are coming from a different culture Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And so Jonaki Bhattacharyya: It’s not for the faint of heart. And it’s not pretty arrogant, because this is not about me making a name for myself. Their voices come forward

Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And my job is to leverage every single piece of training, but I have to support them so that they can make good decisions because remember no advisory team Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Three people for people working every portfolio, making the decisions on this. So the most the best I can do to leverage my research skills to help them better Jonaki Bhattacharyya: It also means being what I called and Matt said a Jill of all trades Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And I hate to break it to you, but imposter syndrome does not end when the league grad school Jonaki Bhattacharyya: For me, it got worse Jonaki Bhattacharyya: It’s not that way for everyone. When you really specialize, but basically on a small team doing conservation work you do whatever the hell needs doing Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So I would love to be working in wildlife management and ethno ecology all the time because that really fires me up Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Half the time I’m coordinating meetings and facilitating I’m, I’m actually trying to figure out governance negotiation strategy. I don’t even have any training in that. But once you hang around long enough and see the kind of barriers. These folks are dealing with, you start to get ideas Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Like all of us just pitch in and develop a trusting relationship with each other Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And then do the work Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And it’s a mutual trust, it has to be so photos like this of playing a traditional game. I’m still working with the people across that log for me Jonaki Bhattacharyya: They invited me in. I had no idea what I was doing Jonaki Bhattacharyya: You build trust in lots of different ways to the integrity of your work, but also who you are when you step into that and that’s where who you are. We come back to that mattering Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I keep this photo beside my desk, while I’m doing this work Jonaki Bhattacharyya: This is a photo from a guess about 11 years ago now I’m Jonaki Bhattacharyya: The one in the hat and my Jonaki Bhattacharyya: colleague and friend Jessica Sita is the one with the gun. We were out doing fieldwork Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And Jonaki Bhattacharyya: She was my field assistant that summer and she’s now one of the leaders, who’s driving the testicle initiative Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And I learned from her like anything. And I love that we’ve had this long standing relationship. Now, and each of us has worked for the other Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Um, Jonaki Bhattacharyya: It comes back to that. Who are you, when you step into the room. This to me epitomizes reconciliation Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And by that I mean you know there’s a big process that we could have a whole nother lecture on and Canada going on with the reconciliation process but Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I find I bring my mixed ethnicity to the table when I’m sitting down and and sharing food with people like Jessica to because even though my ancestors knew nothing like this way of life or these environments Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I know what it’s like to Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Not be able to speak the same language as my grandmother Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And the same way. Some indigenous kids do Jonaki Bhattacharyya: We also can ask questions and joke with each other and tease each other and respect our elders together and not even always know what each other mean but learn from each other Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And I also think that that Jonaki Bhattacharyya: The other thing that relationship with Jess has taught me is not just just all of the people I know well in that community is that working with people to protect their land is Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Is grief work as well as hope work they’ve lost so much and they are still determined to be optimistic to be forward looking Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And to protect what’s left and I think all of us can often relate on that level, we relate with our hearts on a human level and then we start getting the work done Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And that to me is what pulls us across edges, how we deal with an approach diversity Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Is coming together with curiosity. It’s going to be your superpower as students as learners to come with a learning mentality, even when we finished the degrees, you’re doing Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Because it’s that open mindedness not stepping in necessarily as the expert asking questions that allows us to deal with and leverage the power of human experience

Jonaki Bhattacharyya: That comes from diversity Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I’m gonna leave it at that and pop out of screen share and invite questions and discussion because I feel like I talked around a lot of things and you guys might have some Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Specific so you want to nail down Matt Williamson: Trying to find my mute button. Thanks, Jackie. That was fantastic Matt Williamson: Just a reminder for folks. If you have questions, you can either raise your hand by Matt Williamson: Doing that in the participant list or you can turn on your camera and I can see you. And then I can call on you if you have questions Matt Williamson: There is a question in the chat from Ray asking about whether you work with those communities on wildlife conservation issues outside of just a protected area establishment Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Yeah, that’s a great, great question. Um, I tried to when I get the chance. Um, so I’ve done a grizzly Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Stewardship action plan for their area and my graduate research was on actually federal horses and the impacts. There’s also a fair bit of work on moose stewardship, because that’s a real Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Important food security species for food security for them. And we’re also supporting I don’t work directly, but I’m doing a watershed management plan with them that involves Jonaki Bhattacharyya: heavy focus on salmon spawning areas so i i do and I love doing it Jonaki Bhattacharyya: It’s not always easy. That’s one. One of the challenges of what I would say cross cultural workers as I Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Identify as a conservationist Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And I’m really driven by that and I, you know, depending on who is who you’re talking to, in the community, their perspective on those species may be vastly different Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And they might not always share the same values. And so it’s one of the the areas that’s interesting to try to find connection and share move forward with shared values, knowing that you might disagree on some stuff Matt Williamson: Well folks, I think the other question that that your answer is sort of leads me to one of the things that came to mind the beginning of your talk where you were describing the process of Matt Williamson: Of using your ethnography training to kind of listen and then go back and see if if you’ve got it right. And I wonder if Matt Williamson: You have any good stories of times when you may have not quite gotten it right and turn them how you given the stakes of of everything that is happening in the context of of establishing this protected area. How you sort of Matt Williamson: navigate around those challenges and sort of pick yourself back up after a day that maybe didn’t go the way you wanted it to Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Yeah, that’s a great question. Oh my gosh, there’s probably so many occasions that I haven’t gotten there, right, that I Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I I’m struggling to think of an individual and i mean i often humor comes to the rescue. They’re like, like I think Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I don’t know, I’ve been. I’ve been. Like in Scituate sometimes it’s just minor or not minor but like Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I don’t know, I’ll you’ll be eating with people are getting ready for a meeting and then I, you know, I’ve been shushed when I suddenly realized I was talking and somebody was starting the group prayer before a meal Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Very rooted Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I think I was yeah I mean one thing where I didn’t totally get it right. Was that we struggled with was the actual vision statement for the protected area in the in the fundamental principles Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I use that ethnographic process and qualitative analysis to draft those principles and that vision but Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I’m not from there and I was doing it in English, which is not their language Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And so I did you know it was really important to go through verification over and over again to take it back. And I did. And people would say, No, no, you didn’t get that right. Like, that’s, that’s not how you should word that Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Or you need to emphasize this more. And so we built it into question. So that’s, that’s one case. But one of the other things that I find actually more challenging is Jonaki Bhattacharyya: catching myself because I’m very driven. It’s more manners, it’s not it’s not always content and I can be quite Jonaki Bhattacharyya: When I get fired up about something I can be quite forthright and

Jonaki Bhattacharyya: To cotton are a warrior culture. They are fierce. You don’t want to mess with them. However, their way of presenting is very Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Like somebody will just come up and kind of suggests something like, Yeah, I was thinking this thing Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And you don’t even if you’re not paying attention to realize that they’re actually telling you Jonaki Bhattacharyya: The way you need to act and so it’s been more cases where I’ve realized that I might have actually Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Kind of been a bull in a china shop in a meeting and I’ve had to step back and I’ve called people and apologize them to them before and just like I don’t know if I was reading the room round there was that okay and then we just talk it out. So that’s how I’ve experienced it more Matt Williamson: I so there. Jamie has her hand up and then I see a question from Peter in the chat. So I will see before. Gee, Jamie Faselt: Thank you so much for your presentation. It was so interesting Jamie Faselt: And work that I find really inspiring and I think we all, maybe I guess they won’t speak for everyone, but I am in need of a little inspiration right now. So again, just thank you Jamie Faselt: And you mentioned how there is no manual to do this right, like you’re figuring out as you’re going through and I was wondering if you know of any work being done to document this process or if it could be applied to other Jamie Faselt: indigenous groups looking to create their own protected areas. And another question, but I’ll let you answer that and Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Thanks again. Sure. Thank you Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Yeah, so I Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Felt like I was I when I saw that flash the 20 minutes I was like oh crap because actually was like there’s so much background where we got a bit disjointed. So, yeah Jonaki Bhattacharyya: There is an initiative now Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I’m trying to think where to start. So the these areas. It’s they’re not this currently not a legal framework Jonaki Bhattacharyya: They’re not recognized by our provincial or federal government in the sense that there is no designation of an of Jonaki Bhattacharyya: A thing called an indigenous protected area in Canada. So where there are ones that have been created. It’s usually come through government to government negotiations between the nations and either their provincial or their federal government Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And then often the only way that they can actually even when everyone agree is the only way they can actually do that is to have Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Simultaneous overlapping jurisdictions are designations. So we’ve got some that are, for instance, designated as a national park reserve by the federal government so that they then enact the legislation, they need to recognize protection Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And at the same time the nation will then say indigenous protected area or they’ll call it their own name with their own terms and they have to come up with a co management or agreement on how decisions are going to be made on those Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And that looks different in different jurisdictions in different parts of the country. And that’s why there’s no recipe for the end goal or how to get there Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And often, like literally one of them out on them off the west coast of BC has written on the first page. It’s really interesting. It’s sort of said basically both government parties say Jonaki Bhattacharyya: We don’t agree on, who has titles of this land, but we’ve chosen to agree on these management directives for now while that title so it even then leaves in question, longer term from who has title, but they can agree to do it so Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Stepping into the logistics ban like the actual planning process, I think Jonaki Bhattacharyya: There was an initiative, the federal government here is starting to get on board and a few years ago as part of their targets Jonaki Bhattacharyya: For protected areas they they created an indigenous circle of experts, they call it like a panel was convened to look into this topic and they released a report Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Started getting federal money behind indigenous protected areas, the same group of people that that panel has kind of Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Finished this term. Now many of the same people have moved into an academic we funded grant that seven years long called the conservation through reconciliation partnership and they are working on Jonaki Bhattacharyya: What they’re calling us solutions Bible like they’re starting to try to compile and gather who’s doing what. How’s it working. One of the tools Jonaki Bhattacharyya: To to bring together resources because as it is, it’s a bit ad hoc and everybody just has to kind of, like, try to find other examples and

Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Contact them and be like, we share your, you know, your plan with us and a lot of it’s confidential and it’s really hard to find. So it’s starting to come together and hasn’t jumped yet long answer Matt Williamson: I think that might actually have also answered Peters question that’s in the chat and then it looks like Aaron will be next Aerin Jacob: Yeah, I talked about Acharya great talk. Thanks for for sharing your, your words of wisdom. I’m interested in that you work in Aerin Jacob: interdisciplinary research and across so across disciplinary boundaries and with many people from many backgrounds. What have you found about the Aerin Jacob: Maybe lessons learned about sharing information, are there differences in disciplines and among different cultures and what should we take from that about publishing I’m giving talks at conferences, who do you have to ask for permission. How do you go about navigating that Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Thank you. Yeah Jonaki Bhattacharyya: That is a big one. Um, Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I think that certainly as as there’s a more a push for transparency in in often many of the quarter the size of the deal more with quantitative information in terms of raw data sharing and open source data Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Which is about increasing rigor and accountability for sure it doesn’t translate comfortably into a lot of this kind of work because so much as confidential and and I think, you know, one could dig very deep into colonial history to understand how information has been used against people Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And so there’s a there’s a natural, like, and still is, I don’t want to locate that in the past I’ve worked. I work in environmental assessment processes. It’s still used against people Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And and not just that, like on the ground like you want to be careful, even with mapping of cultural resources, it places literally Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Currently will get looted or destroyed. If they released information, quite often. At the same time, there are also cultural protocols around a totally different way of knowing and relating to information and so. So for instance, even in the court cases that this community has been through Jonaki Bhattacharyya: The Jonaki Bhattacharyya: There were certain stories that are only to be told at night, there are certain stories that are only to be shared in certain circumstances. So the relationship with Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Knowledge is really different. And that translates into people’s comfort with publishing Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So a lot of the time, we are in my world we’re dealing with very confidential confidential information and and often what we’ll try to do as a way of providing service to community and publishing is have a conversation with Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Super anal about consent forms, really, really important. So consent Jonaki Bhattacharyya: But also just sort of say, you can have like we give some raw data to the communities that we’re working with, so that they get the benefit of that to be able to use in the future. And then we’ll have a conversation, say, okay, of that, what are you comfortable sharing Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And we’ll have that conversation on an individual basis with each person. We interview but also lineup, a person in the nation or the community who is going to be part of the review process with us before we submit to publication, who can check it over Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And if some if no one has time to read it, then it means a phone call or a meeting where we talk through that. So we find ways to accommodate their business Jonaki Bhattacharyya: A lot of nations are developing protocols for research and publishing and building that into it Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Some of those are becoming open source Jonaki Bhattacharyya: And so it. Yeah, I don’t know if that answers that. Like there’s probably more there but protocols consent forms and a process for asking, and understanding what is allowed to be convinced Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Confidential and what is can be shared Aerin Jacob: Thanks Aerin Jacob: The other Jonaki Bhattacharyya: One thing which Jonaki Bhattacharyya: actually why I think of it, it’s important to mention in terms of funds role like myself, and this is the cross cultural thing again is Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I have to be aware that there are some things people Jonaki Bhattacharyya: simply won’t say to me. So that was an issue to like what we’re doing now with the interviewing is we’ve actually got a community member who speaks the language Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So he’s going out and repeating a lot of the interviews that I did Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Because people will tell him things they wouldn’t tell me, or he’ll understand them differently because he understands the language. And then he can translate. So we’re actually

Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Strengthening the work and backtrack. You have to catch up to ourselves with people who are from the community to do that work. Recognizing the shortcomings, the limitations of my ability Yeah Matt Williamson: Great question. Just reminder, if you have questions, you can raise your hand or turn your video on or post them in the chat Matt Williamson: Here comes one if there was someone that was about to or who is added to the planning team. What is that gap and like, and how, how do you help sort of bridge that gap as new folks come in Jonaki Bhattacharyya: That’s a great. Yeah, that’s a great question Jonaki Bhattacharyya: It changes at different times. So there’s been times where we, for instance, we contract. A lot of stuff out. There’s been times where we need to legal advising Jonaki Bhattacharyya: By someone who understands Indigenous Law. There’s been times where we needed to communicate. Like we hired comms communication strategist Jonaki Bhattacharyya: To Jonaki Bhattacharyya: To help with a strategy for how to deal with the media, how to deal with messaging. There’s been times where we needed somebody with governance and policy background to help figure out how to translate those indigenous wishes and concepts into Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Terminology that would like hit at the right level in negotiations with the province and with the Feds so it’s really changed Jonaki Bhattacharyya: A big thing is also fundraising ability and coordination and facilitation skills facilitation has been key. So we had a coordinator for a while, who Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Was, you know, just really strong in her ability to gently help a meeting run smoothly. Well not dominating it so the chiefs were still in charge, but this you know she had this the facilitation background to just kind of move things forward Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Provide the briefing notes that they would need to make good decisions that were informed, make sure everybody had the quieter people in the room had a chance to speak all of those things. Some facilitation and then Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Wherever. We’re at negotiating could be legal could be planning could be sometimes we need a biologist Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Yeah, it really varies. No, that’s a big question Matt Williamson: I do you see the question from gene in the chat. I’m not sure if you read Jonaki Bhattacharyya: I do have yeah we make progress and developing consent for and just perspective. That is a great question Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So anyone who’s at a university has to go to be ethics board and then also sign a protocol agreement with the nation Jonaki Bhattacharyya: In this particular case, the protocol template that we’re using was developed by the end Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Well by mean working for the nation. So it was, again, it was run through I would take drafts and then they would say no. We want this different we want that difference Jonaki Bhattacharyya: A total offense really from an indigenous perspective, though they were just trying to make sure everything was covered off. So I think there’s still work to be done Jonaki Bhattacharyya: On that. I mean, one thing that we do find really key is you know just hand a form to someone and ask them to sign it. I mean, you know, this Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Like we we we spend time talking through Orly what this means and why with every single person and we have the tape recorders running while we’re doing that so that a verbal consent for someone who might not be comfortable Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Signing a form can also be part of that process. But I think there’s probably Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Another thing that was more from the indigenous perspective was the nation Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Chose to develop what they called a relationship agreement Jonaki Bhattacharyya: So instead of calling it a consent form they wanted people to actually agree to the terms of the relationship, they would have with each other and they saw that as it’s not a one off. It’s a long term like thing and that was that was developed by them, for sure Matt Williamson: We are at two o’clock. Do you never know if you turn on your camera. So if you want to say Jean Polfus: Follow up with that question you should definitely do it. No, I, that was great chatting to thank you so much. I just wanted to let you have somebody to talk to you Jean Polfus: Thank you so much for your presentation Matt Williamson: So thank you all for spending your Friday afternoon and taking a break from all of the things that are distracting today to spend some time with us. We really appreciate it. For students in the seminar

Matt Williamson: Please do continue to ask your questions in the Slack channel Johnny will be there for the rest of the week and we can set up some additional times for folks to chat if you like. If you registered. I’ll be sending the video around, feel free to share it with whoever you might like Matt Williamson: And come back next week for our next seminar on Wednesday with Lisa sheltie more from Iowa State Thank Jonaki Bhattacharyya: You. Good luck. It was waiting to Carol there Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Again, Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Thank you Jonaki Bhattacharyya: Carol goodness Jonaki Bhattacharyya: you’re muted, Carol carol orr: Great to see you, Johnny carol orr: courage to say thanks so much for spending time with them