Moving Forward in Your Career: Management Considerations

we have won’t dry foods here to talk about moving forward in your career and what is the associate vice president of advancement services at the University of Washington and there he provides leadership and vision in the development of use of enabling technologies and systems in support of University of Washington advancement he oversees operations of gift processing strategic technology initiatives teller stewardship and recognition and also the angel giving programs among these accomplishments are successful completion of three comprehensive capital campaigns and for database conversions since 1981 he’s 19 yeah if you want he is filled positions of increasing responsibility in the field including nine years at UC berkeley 11 and a half years of Washington State and here at university of washington since 2002 wall holds a degree in rhetoric and also ambassadors of sociology from the university of caliber CLE and he also has a masters of counseling at st Mary’s College of California I made it over to him and let it stay good thanks I’ll thank you thank you for coming to my session I know that you have many choices of session providers today and I appreciate you flying with me now a couple of disclaimers first of all I’m obviously as I noted in my intro of my boss Connie I really shouldn’t be talking about moving your career forward because my career has been stagnant for 23 years but that’s because i went up like a meat-eor and then flashed out but the other thing is that that the word management considerations is a double entendre in this because i’m speaking from the point of view of management but i’m also speaking to from the point of view of your desire to get into management and i don’t think that’s a necessary career crack for everybody but in a lot of ways it becomes significant because it turns out that in a lot of our institutions management people are get better compensation and so it’s hard to reach the levels of compensation you want sometimes unless you take on some management responsibilities I’m actually jealous of Chuck here our fundraising scientists because he’s managed to create his own job he’s the only fundraising scientist neither he or I have ever met so congratulations just some beginning thoughts about this topic and the reason I can speak of extemporaneous ly about this topic is that that this consideration is part of every annual performance review I do with my own direct reports and so those of you who are my direct reports and there’s at least one of you in the room have already heard a lot of this stuff the other thing is that my experience for the last almost 32 years is exclusively in institutions of higher education and so there’s a bias here toward advanced education advanced degrees and that is inherent in working in institutions of higher education nobody else besides institutions of higher education and certain professions like law or medicine or pharmacy for example really place this level of emphasis on advanced degrees so that there is a bias there and I will also talk about some other biases I have as we progress through here I currently supervise 13 direct reports and over my career and I’ve had another career in in mental health as well I got my first man in management job at a state mental hospital in 1977 so I’ve done a bit of management myself and I have been managed that whole time because I have never been El supremo in any organization under nobody’s management so the the first three things relative to preparing yourself for a management position is that there are three elements of management that are exists in every management position in every industry I’ve ever heard of and those are personnel management budget management and strategic planning those are three things that you need to figure out how to involve yourself in to prepare for your career in management if that’s the way you want to go the way i like to do this is that i bundle these things together with annual report performance reviews and so they’re not divorced when you think about what you’re going to ask

for a performance review you say I say what did you accomplish tell me what you accomplished tell me how you how your accomplishments compared to your goals tell me what you accomplished that wasn’t in your plan and what you accomplished that was in your plan and tell me how I can help you as your manager and then what I do is I I asked my direct reports to do this administer the same questionnaire it’s a self review and analysis with each of theirs and we roll it all up and then of course i present it to my boss and say look what I did so if it it all carries forward but it’s also part of the planning process look back then we plan to look forward and then we plan the budget around what our forward-looking plan is conditional on getting the budget requirements so you need to think about how am I going to get some experience in budget management and in strategic planning and in personnel management now budget breaks out into a couple of categories one is your payroll obligations and payroll is salaries and benefits need to understand that at our at our institution a benefit load runs from 28 to thirty three percent of salaries and so that’s different for every institution but you need to be aware of that because your your salary line is not the same as your as the budget line for that individual and that’s something important to understand and it is different because different people take advantage of different options some health plans within your menu may be more expensive than others caused me the employer more and also for example at the University of Washington as you age you’re entitled to commit more of your resources your income into the retirement plan so when you’re over 50 for example you can add another two and a half percent and it and the university will match that that’s ten percent in ten percent of in my case being over 50 so that’s why it can be different from 28 to thirty three percent and people like me cost more for obvious reasons the other part of budget is operations and we try to keep operations money in operations and personnel money and personnel because operations money is more ephemeral and typically tends to be less committed to ongoing efforts aside from things like then for the phones and and whatnot we like to keep our ops a little more flexible and when you lock it into an FTE it’s hard to break out of that see if you can get an opportunity to manage some budget money and then remember that you did and put on your resume that’s that’s important to me when I’m looking at people that I want to hire as managers the second thing is your HR function now when I talk about being a supervisor I’m talking about being responsible for hiring training and evaluating corrective action all of those kinds of things and that’s the second element of this that you need to figure out a way to get some experience in now I find that some of my most experienced managers from in this sphere our people who come out of the student calling program we employ 80 student colors in our organization and there’s significant turnover because they need to be students and they graduate out so some of my student calling people like Kyle sit in the back they’re running the camera by the time he’s done with two or three years working in student calling he’s going to have interviewed hired managed and said goodbye too many dozens of people when you get to be more senior as they say in terms of being old like me you don’t really get the opportunity to do that as frequently so it’s a great experience for those people in motion about hauling the row gram participate in search committees when you get the opportunity and figure out how to do this this part of the job one of the

most challenging elements of this course is corrective action and you really don’t want to have to do it but when you do have to do it what I always do is I go right to my HR people I never try to wing it don’t ever try to wing it use use the HR professionals help work with them you don’t have to take what they say is as the wrote but you need to figure out how to do that and really corrective action is is advised is a term of art here this isn’t about discipline I’m not talking about firing people that can be one outcome of corrective action but I’m talking about genuinely that attempting to remediate some issue or deficiency and an employee so they come become more productive and meet your standards so it’s it we don’t let it go we do corrective action because we don’t want to have to take those more drastic steps of discipline or separation in fact it turns out that the aside from budget-related layoffs most of the of the separations that I’ve been involved in have either been because of outright malfeasance dishonesty or because we drove the person crazy and they became mentally ill so that can happen to and sometimes you just don’t want to have mentally ill people in the workplace on the other hand I appreciate your tolerance in that respect the third thing is strategic planning and visioning and this is something that I genuinely expect from everybody that works in my organization I have a concept that I call Headroom I talked about this last year for those of you who are here Headroom is actually a term that I got out of being a musician I play the electric bass and I in in playing the electric bass what you find is that you need to have a certain amount of capacity in your amplification system that’s higher than the signal the highest level signal that you’re going to put out otherwise you get Distortion okay and so you you want to be using less than the capacity unless you really want distortion which sometimes people do but in bass you really don’t want too much Distortion Jack Bruce being the exception Jack Bruce actually played with bro and speakers because he liked that distorted sound so much but you can hear that on some of the old cream records he’s gotten over that sense but so Headroom in is a metaphor for having more capacity to work then your job actually requires and I encourage each of you to figure out how to get some Headroom and your job get out of the tactical get out of the day to day and take some opportunities to think larger think more globally about how to be really great at what you do and what needs to be done that’s what I want you to use the Headroom for if you work for me I pretty much required that I don’t want people who just come in and do their job and go home I want people who come in and do their job and then think about how to make their job easier or better or more interesting that is the personal version of strategic planning then as you get into participating in management we’re going to ask you what should we be doing next year that we’re not doing this year what should we stop doing next year that we are doing now and what does everybody want us to do and out of that queue of things what should we be doing and how should we prioritize it I need help with this I crowdsource strategic planning and if you work for me you’re going to be part of the crowd who helps me figure out how to make those decisions about strategic planning of course it depends on your organization and so forth and I know that many people one of the reasons we actually have this conference is that many people and maybe even most come from organizations that only have one two or three people in the whole office that do the kinds of work that we do and we get overwhelmed it sometimes it’s just too much work to be done you need to figure out a way to get yourself some Headroom because sometimes what use your head before is to figure out how to do that more efficiently and effectively so that you can have more Headroom it’s it’s a

self-fulfilling prophecy in a sense I just sat at lunch with a person in a one person reporting shop and he said he has one can report and everything else he does is ad hoc so what would you suggest in a situation like that for getting some Headroom you think of anything that was a question you guys are free to answer in start making some more canned reports you’re not spending all your time to an ad hoc tactical work that’s right so those three things if that’s not development specific not fundraising specific not advancement specific that is those are requirements for managers in any field in any industry for-profit nonprofit and so forth now as we get into what we need in higher education that the next thing is that we often require degrees we require bachelor’s degrees we require advanced degrees and people ask me all the time of what degrees should I get and particularly in our field they’ll say you know should I get an MBA should I get it become a certified public accountant should i get a an mis manager of information systems degree should i get a computer science degree should i get a statistics degree and I and I say to them well what which one of those sounds good to you and they’ll say well none I actually like to read trashy novels in my spare time and I can’t imagine doing the reading for a degree in computer science I can barely read an online article about it before I fall asleep and so my answer is really you particularly for advanced degrees but also for undergraduate degrees pick pick the degree where you know you can do the reading where it’s to be fun I prefer to read trashy novels which is right I got a rhetoric degree and then of course they forced me to read poetry and I actually found I like poetry it’s not quite so worthy as trashy novels and particularly Stephen King one of the most worthy guys in the world so if you’re with me you’re not going to see a requirement for I want a computer scientist and only a computer scientist in fact in my organization I only have one computer scientist and everybody else is self-taught from some other discipline like myself and the the advantage of the master’s degree or the doctorate degree over a simple bachelor’s degree is this at the Masters level you are expected to get some level of mastery of a particular subject matter area and then the difference between that and a doctorate is that in the doctoral program you’re expected to figure out how to create some new knowledge that would be the preference anyway if you can aspire to that so getting a master’s degree at a good program will enable you to figure out how to find out as much as there is to know about a particular topic and that’s a great skill to have you can of course teach yourself how to do that I’ve taught myself how to do that about harley-davidson motorcycles but it’s not as in depth of a area of study of sociology or counseling that I also studied so encourage you to think about that I’ve got people now who in my organization who do this and I encourage you if you so provides people to help them with this at the University of Washington we have the capacity to offer release time so people can go to class we will also sometimes pay for classes when they’re directly related to the person’s job function and it’s a good thing for everybody for me it’s a tremendous retention strategy because people stay with me while they’re getting these degrees and sometimes because they’re already working full time it takes them a little longer and that means they stay a little longer that’s a good thing for all of us now there are some people for whom this is not going to be an option i’ve actually had two people who continue to work for me who have have bachelor’s degree and i badgered them like this in their annual performance review and finally at different times both of them said to me no well you just need to shut up about that i’m not going back to school and I’ll tell you why and both of them actually told me the same story they said I have a learning disability and reading is extremely challenging for me I don’t get information from the printed word and

right now to be honest even today in most masters and doctoral programs you have to be able to read and so if you have learning disability if you have dyslexia if you have some issues we’re learning book learning is very challenging for you you you need to figure out a different way to do this or be self-taught or learn in other ways there are other ways to learn besides reading unfortunately most colleges and universities still believe in books or some version of books that include the printed word and so it’s not for everybody and in fact there are people in my organization who do not have even bachelor’s degrees who are very accomplished at their jobs and it’s not a absolute requirement for me but it is a bias of our institutions and in fact it’s very heavy bias and and that really means that that those of us who don’t have terminal degrees like doctorates and JDS and MDS are our second class citizens in our own organizations and then within that context even people with Doctorate degrees who don’t have tenure are second-class citizens to those who do have tenure and so it goes as kilgore trout says so degrees are more important in higher education than anywhere else and we value them and they help validate your qualifications for that those are management considerations now there there are some other things to think about as you think about preparing yourself for a career here one of the reasons that I call out for example database conversions and capital campaigns in my own autobiographical blurb that Kyle Reds parts of you to you is that in our business there are these cycles and most of the cycles are annual but a lot of them are shorter than that and a few of them are longer than that in the state of Washington for example budgeting is done on a biennial cycle so we do a budget every two years instead of everyone here I firmly believe that a lot of these complex cycles like budgeting require at least three cycles to really get some level of mastery the first time you go through it you’re a deer-in-the-headlight you don’t know what’s going on the second time you’re beginning to get a clue and then the third time you can actually start working the system I know what the rules are know how to play it you know how to optimize your position in these things so as you think about your own career you need to think about what are the cycles in your job some things we only do once a year we only close out the fiscal year we only do a year-end report once a year you’re not going to if you’re in the reporting business you’re not going to be really great at doing a year-end report until you’ve done three year-end reports in my view certainly not one you’re not going to be the best person in the world you might be the best person in the world that your organization at doing the year-end report for one year because you’re the only one there who knows how to do it but you’re not going to have mastery out of the first time so think about those cycles if you’re in annual giving and you’re in direct mail maybe you do for direct mails a year or you do eight direct mails a year so you get eight cycles of that particular pursuit from data selection to production to design to production to delivery to receipt throughout the cycle and so your cycles go a lot faster if you’re in the student calling program your cycles go a lot faster you new markets every week or every two weeks or something like that so figure out what cycles are going on as you advance in your career and as you sink into into the detail of your organization you realize that some of these cycles are very long like capital campaigns I haven’t been in the capital campaign that was less than eight years long that’s why in almost 33 years I’ve only done three capital campaigns I’m going to do one more before I quit this at least at same thing with database conversion something not to be taken lightly in our business you don’t want to have to do it very often but sometimes it becomes mandatory so figure out what some of these cycles are in prospect research for example we just did a huge data acquisition and append in preparation for our next campaign it’s something that we haven’t done for almost ten years that’s something that you wouldn’t have had the experience in if you have been there five years previous to last year they would have

done this full-on data app end of all this demographic data just because at our institution we haven’t done it that often so think about those cycles and then think about how those interact with what your story is as expressed in your resume because if I’m looking your resume and if you apply for a job with me I will look at your resume i promise i do not have HR screen apps for me i look at every single and I want to see what how long you’ve been at your place and what kinds of responsibilities you’ve had and how many cycles I can project on to you my theory of mind about your job performance is going to include your experience of these kinds of cycles relative to the job to what you expire and aspire in my organization so that really means that you need to stick around a little bit most of the time now I always ask the question about why people move because sometimes there are good answers to that question it’s not it is a bias of mind that I like people who stick around and I don’t care for people who flip too often but sometimes there are good reasons to flip and a couple of those reasons are of course that you that your spouse or partner gets career opportunities and you move with them and it does disrupt your career it is something that happens and particularly for example people who work for IBM back in the 80s and this may be true now still used to say ibm’ stands for I been moved and that meant that at IBM if if you wanted to advance in your career you had to move that you didn’t get the next promotion by staying in the same location you have to change locations well if you’re married or partnered up with a person who’s in that situation you’re moving to probably so that’s something I’ll consider women take time off for a child birth and child care that no harm no foul I’m not we’re not punishing you for doing these things you but you need to be a forthright and up runt about it another great answer that I got on this was from a marketing professional and what she told me was that she perceived her need for career advancement in terms of a toolbox that was a metaphor and she said in the marketing jobs that I’ve had I had the opportunity to do very specific kinds of campaigns ad campaigns marketing campaigns and at each institution or organization that I work I got slotted into a a role within the marketing department and it’s not easy at all to in the in marketing in the same organization to change your role and so I purposely moved every time I felt I had mastery of a particular set of tools in that marketing space I would move to another organization where I could get access to the opportunity to get experience and learn how to use other tool sets that I felt would make me a comprehensive marketer so she was moving every 18 months but the duration of her moves was getting longer and longer she got more responsibility and more tools and her toolkit so I think about that now you notice I’m moving more from management considerations into the considerations of how I might look at an application and so I’m going to talk a little bit about that because the advancing your career is of course depending on the hiring official and I’m only a sample of one on being a hiring official I can’t tell you how other hiring officials are working but I’ve worked as a staff or chair of many many dozens of search committees including many executive level positions and I know what I look for and what the hiring officials to whom I’m directing the candidates look for so talk a little bit about that the first one being don’t move too much unless you’re prepared to tell me why you did it and why that doesn’t hurt you and in fact may make you better actually that was the second one the first one was the advanced degree part of things the the other thing that you need to think about is that we as hiring officials want you to really want the job you’re applying for now that may

seem kind of obvious but when you ask people and it’s a stock interview question what interests you about this job I’ve had the answer the University of Washington has wonderful benefits and I’d like to take advantage of that so that sound like a good answer to you I’ve had the response well my spouse just moved into the area and I need to find a job somewhere in Seattle I’ve had the response the University of Washington is a great employer and has a wonderful cause and I would love to work for the university I’ve had the response I’ve heard that university advancement at the University of Washington is a fabulous place to work and I really want to get a job in advancement I’ve had the answer I’ve heard your advancement services operation is a terrific opportunity and I’d love to work in advancement services so I’m going from the general to the specific here you might notice so far none of those answers float my boat the answer that floats my boat is I want this job it looks like a job that was made for me I have the perfect skill set to to bring to this job and I really aspire to having this particular job and here is why that is the right answer that’s my bias I’m just telling you you you want to be in the position of wanting the job you’re applying for it I know particularly in the economy we’ve been in that’s not a luxury that everybody has all the time sometimes you have to pay the bills and you have to get the job that you can get but nonetheless that’s the answer that need to give to help you get that John okay it may not be your dream job it may not even be the stepping stone to your dream job but you need to at least pretend to me that it’s the job that you really want for the time being anyway so think about that the next consideration as I think about these things is that I want to see some aspiration in your approach to the job I if when faced with a person who does not have all of the experience I want and someone who does have all the experiences that I want I’m I actually have a bias toward the person who’s aspiring to the next level as opposed to the person who wants to transfer from the same job to get someplace else to the to the other job here now again I’ll lift up that bias if you give me the good answer about why that would be the case well my spouse or partner took a great opportunity here and I’d love to continue to do what I’m doing over there here again can be a great answer or I took a couple years off to to have my child and to get get him or her started in in this world and now I’m ready to come back to work and I want us to pick up where I left off these are totally satisfactory answers that you can overcome my bias in other words i’m not saying that i’m totally rigid on this but i like to see some aspiration i like strivers in my organization i think find that strivers help me with the whole Headroom issue more than people who aren’t striving so biases again but you need to kind of suss out the biases of the people to whom you for whom you aspire to work those are some considerations and you’ll notice that I’ve been talking for for 35 minutes and I haven’t even mentioned the specific skill sets I’m looking for quite frankly as Connie said in the keynote yesterday we believe we can probably train you in a lot of the skill sets you’re going to need to do the job here you’re going to need to in culture eight anyway you don’t know the culture of the UW you don’t know how we do the business that you’ll have a lot to learn no matter what skills you bring in of course I want people who know how to write code if I’m hiring a a developer for example I want people who have some skills in the area I but I’m actually less concerned about that typically that I’m concerned about making sure I get what Connie said which is smart hardworking and caring and what I said which is aspiring upwardly mobile on an upward trajectory motivated really wants this job and so forth so those are the kinds of things that I think about now I’m going to ask you what do you guys think about some of you are already managers tell us what I’ve left out what else is important to you what do you want me to

be thinking about that I’m obviously too dense to think about in this context I know it’s nap time you guys what are your thoughts on the consulting field in our relationship I consulting is it is that looks to me like an extremely challenging job and I was I had dinner with one of the consultancy’s hair or name is Charlotte McGee from bryn savad Claire 32-year career in an insider role and now an 18-2 19-year career as a consultant afterwards and I asked her about it because that the challenge with being a consultant for me from my perspective and I’ve done a little consulting but I don’t do it for money I do it for love and the it is that you bring a bunch of great ideas but you don’t actually get to implement so I think that I we used consultants quite regularly and and we hire people to advise us on things either from an internal or from external so for example Kirk Bailey this morning was talking about how he’s interacts with me in particular relative to data security and our advancement of data i’m using kirk as a consultant i actually love consultants with expertise i’m there i don’t have enough data security work to hire my own data security person so there are a lot of those kind of Nicias where I think you have to use consultants and that that consultants are very important I also think that the the opportunity to go out and do consulting and help some of these one person shops or these small organizations is it’s wonderful I have a colleague who works out of Wilmington North Carolina and he consults with very very small organizations like regional Boy Scouts councils and and the pig farmers association they apparently have a big some marketing issues for having to do with aromas or something like that that they need need consultants with pig farmers don’t know exactly how to manage their their reaction to people’s complaints about how their farms smell because they can’t smell them anymore so lots of lots of good roles for consultants out there I think it’s very challenging and particularly if you’re on a billable hours kind of a deal it’s a tough gig but is that something you want to do yeah well there’s lots of consulting firms out there and they’re always recruiting it’s interesting to me to think about it because they’re there could be opportunities for me as well but I don’t know I’ve always been an insider and I value my insider role because I actually I get to see things through which I don’t think consultants do very often so your two ago I let myself be drugs kicking screeches a linkedin and ever since then I’ve been getting endorsed the things that I don’t particularly know much about so the quality of information might get at least for my LinkedIn dubious FS it certainly and I haven’t heard you mention any kind of like online social networking or even in person networking itch you know elbow rubbing and what what’s good networking pleasing to your perception of the person sites just what they say it personal well as I said in my somewhat tongue-in-cheek intro of my boss i’m always open to doing informational interviews and i think that’s important and I really mean it as an informational interview not as a a pre job application to come and find out whatever it is you might want to know and whatever it is I might want to tell you about my organization and how we do and think about things I think that’s important and I think that’s valuable and most places will do it there’s at least three of us at the executive level in my organization that do these things every couple of weeks we doing all the time and we’d love to do them because it’s

how we spot one of the ways that we spot talent the second thing is meetings like this when you can find one that you actually get to rub elbows as you say with people who have similar interests and similar responsibilities professionally it’s great it’s great for them and it’s great for you beyond that the usual caveats about your you’re visible public presence on the web all apply here I i want to see professionalism in those places as well and yes there are actually some ethical considerations relative to doing searches and so forth on on people we have to avoid bias in terms of race or ethnicity or age or something like that back in the old days back in the 30s 40s and 50s job applications often required a headshot a photograph and those photographs were used to weed out people of races who who the hiring official didn’t want to have be blunt about it we have to we can’t use those media to do that sort of thing here and we’re not going to but we perhaps we’ll go out to see what your level of profession ilysm is in your web presence such as it is or isn’t very hard not to have one these days if you at all are in the public space so those are a few things the educational part is also good you meet a lot of people particularly at the at the graduate level who are who have similar interests and you can you can follow that as well I come from a liberal arts background but don’t use those little times I don’t they don’t apply directly to what i do and i bought the skill that that i’ve learned myself but I’ve picked up over a year but how do you hiding on what’s important to you is describing those bills here well it the hard skills like access to particular tools hardware and software you can list and I particularly want you to match up what I put in the job description to what you list so that you don’t don’t don’t leave it to me to connect the dots connect the dots for me either in your resume or your cover letter just as an aside the University of Washington uses this tool called UW hires it’s an online tool you put your resume in there and then you can apply for multiple jobs and the challenge with that is that you can’t craft your resume where every single job especially if you’re applying for two jobs at the same time so you have to do it in your cover letter for example that the usual advices is craft your resume every time but when you’re using these online forms sometimes you can so connect the dots for me with the softer skills like personnel management strategic planning and budgeting tell me what you can about what you’ve done give the example I volunteered gigs are also fine for this many people get budget experience or direct fundraising experience by doing volunteer gigs because their job doesn’t allow them to get that so there’s various well ways you can describe that and then finally when you come in and you’re you’re telling me why this is the job for you that’s your very specific opportunity to tell me that that you know how to do what I want you to do and tell me what you don’t know how to do what I will have to train you in because as I said I’m more likely to hire a person who aspires to something higher than what they’ve already done and so let’s be upfront about what you’re going to have to learn in order to be a well-rounded individual in that position and don’t try to hide that so do both things in other words I notice that none of us are actually asking a question so I’m going to ask if another one how do you how do you can you give us some guidance on compensation and how do you have that conversation about compensation and you’re hiring someone new for your team especially because we work at public institutions and pretty much everyone knows what we would be making and so how do you have that first conversation when you’re hiring someone and how do you

keep having that ongoing conversation as usual any other views yeah this is a huge pain point for me now because we’re now in about four and a half years of salary freezes in my institution and the place where you need to have that conversation is on entry because we’ve been frozen for so long so I always tell folks get it going in you know you you you need to push me on that you can actually go online the state of Washington publishes all of our compensation it’s it’s often a couple years out of date if you go to the library at the University of Washington they have a printout that will show the compensation so you can find people in the unit using the directory and then find out what they’re paid it’s all public information so you can see that and get kind of an idea of the range I also think it’s it’s totally appropriate to ask at the outset what the range of compensation is I actually want to know your qualifications it’s going to be a dance because I’m going to pay you more for certain qualifications depending on what the market is here for those qualifications and that’s particularly true in the technical and and developer skill sets because I can’t compete I’m in a market place that has a significant footprint by Microsoft Google Adobe amazon and they are snatching up and over compensating the people that I want with the same skill sets and so I have to compete on more ephemeral things like working for a great cause and having a real dedication to work life balance you can go to work for Microsoft and make more money but you can also work 80 hours a week there and and then end up putting out a nice piece of software that people take potshots at for the rest of its term of existence so but but that’s that’s a problem for me compensation is a problem for all of us I think but right now at the University of Washington it’s a big problem for me and if I hire you and I compensate you too generously than all the people who have been loyally working for me for those four and a half years are going to come in and wine at me significantly during that annual review period so I always have to be mindful of that stuff too but bottom line get it going in yes give some clues or tricks for getting through I don’t know how to say this kindly nepotism cronyism that happens and you get all our institutions but certainly yeah University of wash Children’s Hospital I mean it’s very difficult to land jobs or interviews to talk to people within a lot of these organizations if you don’t know somebody that’s right that my first clue is to do the informational interview come and see me even before a job is listed if you want to work in my organization want to work in my institution and if you want to work in advancement you come and see me I’m not just saying advancement services I’ll talk to anybody about advancement at the University of Washington I’m one of seven members of the executive leadership of that team and I can talk about cole scope so that’s that’s a good place to start and my colleague greg sheridan does this a lot we’re always looking for talent we also have a recruiter who’s here yesterday and today our name is Amy maneo and show she stockpiles a list of people who look really promising and then things about them when particular jobs become available so you can do that that’s that’s another clue but you’re absolutely right and sometimes we are required to have open competitive searches even though we know that we want to hire somebody who’s internal and that’s a brutal fact that is is unfortunate but sometimes true but that’s about the best i can do have a reputation a positive reputation preferably because it really is a small world we’re we don’t know what the real degrees of separation are but but particularly in advancement IT there aren’t very many degrees of separation and somebody somebody I know knows you I can promise you that so I will pull those strings when I do reference checks i always say i asked if you’re a finalist and i’m doing reference checks i’ll say to you is it okay if I talk to people you didn’t list it’s a reference and then I will say to your references is there someone else you can speak

specifically to this or that point about this individual so to be aware of that as well your references can help you on this I think one of the things after the tool I would submit to your question would be a person epic poem and the way that I defined that is going to that interview process when you’re looking for someone who’s passionate nominal see you tomorrow but also you want them specifically on smaller teams the willing to take the time to train someone teach someone are you know listen physical situation so that would be to answer your question later being one of the attributes would be this person tumble of NASA so they’re really smart but they can’t absolutely and that that’s a specific within the more general topic of fit how do you fit and I I want to hire people who aren’t like me because I I’m sick of me and I need other people who are more interesting so but you got to be you need to do that you need to be mindful of having people with Rick genuine diversity not just ethnic racial but the age skill set outlook point of view etc so I’ve burned all the time I’m happy to continue to talk however so but you’re all excused if you wish to leave oh yeah yeah the thing about managing up is again it part of its get it going in one of the things i as i said i was talking to Charlotte ian and she’s been in consulting / for more than 15 years and and I i was talking to her about relative the relative positioning of advancement services leadership in our kinds of organizations and she told me that my position is really unusual in that I report directly to the vice president for University Advancement of a friend of mine just went from here over to Michigan and he said that the director of advancement services reports to the campaign director who reports to him who reports the VP of development and Charlotte said to me most VP’s the development or CEOs of these organizations they don’t want to do the data they just want to know that it’s getting done and keep me out of it but in 1990 when I went to Washington State I said I will one of the one of the ways reasons I will come is because I will have the opportunity to the VP so and that was in the interview process you need to do the same thing you need to ask for some of the things that I have said like release time time to go get that degree time two ways to get Headroom all of those sorts of things you can tell me how you’re going to add value by having more time and we’ll see what we can do to get it managing up and managing sideways too it’s not just about managing down but absolutely I it’s it’s mandatory the other thing that I wanted to mention is that I’m sorry I’m going over but the one of the things that that one of our values at the University of Washington is a concept we call institutionalizing advancement and that’s because we don’t believe that the development professionals can really raise all the money we need to raise we need the subject matter experts on students on faculty on research on medical issues to be there in the room with us we need to institutionalize advancement but at our level if we’re IT people or fundraising scientists or annual giving people or whatever we may be we need to get involved in that in the larger life of the campus so in from my point of view what that means is that I sit on the data management committee for the whole University I sit on the privacy assurance and System Security Council for the whole University I’m on five different university-wide committees about data it is the absolute dullest work in the world it is committee or it’s outside of my my area of expertise or my comfort zone I’ve been in development for more than 30 years and I don’t know anything about HR payroll systems but I volunteer for these things because it’s part of the way that we institutionalize in advancement I take my knowledge to these things and actually over 11 years I’ve been able to to develop something of a reputation for actually know

what I’m talking about and positioning particularly our advancement database as one of the core administrative databases of the institution how many of you actually have that before 10 years ago they thought here are the big administrative databases HR payroll student and finance those are the big three then you got all those trivial ones like advancement and transportation services and Housing and Dining Services and and the facility services that manages all the rooms and available teaching spaces and so forth and and and those are all kind of second-class citizens well I want alumni donor to be recognized as one of the big four a tainted ended it took quite a while for us to be recognized as an institutional function and entitled to see her protected student records we are into the button where critical luck but people run raging you can’t cut them over the years that’s right and you can’t build that bridge in the advancement shop you have to get out that’s right that’s right and that’s that because I helped them out and I i SAT through their interminable planning meetings talking about data values that I don’t really care about very much yeah well thank you for your kind attention