Automated Creativity in Customer Journey – Lazar Dzamic – The eCommerce Growth Show Adriatic

welcome to the e-commerce growth show brought to you by segmentify so ladies and gentlemen welcome to the e-grow commerce show today we have our first uh guest this is mr uh lazar jamich uh he is ex googler zu nes head of brand planning and digital marketing lecture uh so welcome and uh the host will be mr david cheslonik uh the acting ceo from tenea.s.i so gentlemen please welcome well thank you very much first of all thank you very much for having me and while we were talking about what to talk about today uh it struck me that maybe one particular angle of um what to do online what to do with not just e-commerce but particularly e-commerce uh is in my experience at least after four and a half years of actually now being back in our in our part of europe our part of the world after britain and working with large international clients i think that particular bit is a little bit abandoned and neglected and i want to kind of just quickly quickly shed some light on how big brands successful brands and not just big brands clever brands are automating their creativity uh in the process of e-commerce and in the process of maximizing value throughout their customer journey very very quickly just to start we today with corona we actually have a problem of accelerated inevitability which means many of the trends that we’ve seen in the developed world now have accelerated in pace and even the countries that maybe are not so advanced or have not been so advanced in e-commerce are now actually uh going into it whether they like it or not so uh many of those trends did exist already have been applied in developed markets um and now actually they are rolling out globally so we today live in a skippable world of choice it’s never been easier to ignore brand messages and the old principles of just relying on advertising simply do not work as well as they used to so in the corona world we actually have to find a really good answer to this one of the biggest and the most important questions in modern marketing and the modern business which was actually posited in 1986 by tony stead who named the discipline of account planning or strategic planning and communications in london uh in 1970s and in one interview with one of my friends at the time he actually said the main question of every every communication piece or marketing overall is why the would they and they means consumers customers and clients why would they pay attention to what we say why would they think feel or do what we are asking them to do and if you don’t have a really really good answer to this particular particular question everything is kind of pointless so i had this sentence literally blown up as a poster and always kept it kind of opposite my desk and my team’s desk so that we can always be reminded of the main question in the modern business and what is actually interesting with the digital world and particularly with the corona world is that we actually see a shift from brand as a comet to brand as the fireworks because we used to treat brands the head of the comet was the most important that was where advertising was sitting and the rest of the customer journey was a little bit abandoned and now in the digital space and particularly with kind of corona pressures we have to squeeze every single drop of value from every touch point that any brand has with all the uh customers and clients and i would say even all of the stakeholders that they’ve got so top of the funnel is important but actually middle of the funnel and bottom of the funnel is becoming even more important and that means that we have to be clever how we uh maximize the value in those parts of the customer journey so three things i would quickly like to run through customer journey what it is just for somebody just in case somebody may have does not have experience in that space uh why is defining uh the value exchange the ve for each touch points in the customer journey is a critical thing and what are moments that matter that are actually powering those value exchanges so three specific concepts now the cj the customer journey is uh one of the biggest missed branding and sales opportunity if you ask me because people usually think of managing the customer journey just being about sales but actually because we’ve got so many touch points during the customer life cycle that we can actually brand as well through our own channels very very cost effectively but we forget that bit so when i say customer journey i don’t mean just the

sales funnel i mean everything that happens big parts that happen before the sales and after sales as well because buying one insurance product is just the sale of one product but the moment that i get into your database as that particular customer on one product i i become a prospect or a lead for all the other insurance products that a company sells and why would you not talk to me through your own channels directly and in the context and instead of relying on me actually seeing your advertising on tv or whatever so when i say customer journey i mean everything how to generate awareness but also how the awareness then turns into research and we have to be ready for that how research turns into conversion so conversion rate optimization becomes a really important game once they’ve converted into customers or clients how to do a great welcome program because we know that the welcome programs impact on renewals and impact on cross-sell and upsell as well and then how to do upsell how to do cross-sell and then uh when to come the point of renewal comes for many of the products that actually had cyclical nature how to be ready for that and not even that but actually if the customer has gone out of our gravitational field one year for example i’ve changed my car insurance provider the data is still in my in my system and i can actually i should be able if i do all the bits properly i should be able to talk to that customer next year when the renewal window comes again because i know when they’re going to be needing new car insurance again so the customer journey means that whole bit and it’s not new it’s a very old concept and even mckinsey about 10 12 years ago have reiterated the concept through that big global research and actually showed that oh no it’s not linear it’s cyclical it’s circular yes we knew that kind of but there were some kind of good good observations in their research basically that said uh yes the initial consideration set is important at the beginning of actually thinking about which brand to buy but then during the active evaluation phase and that’s the research and the conversion phase brands could be knocked out of that list and or jump onto their list if they’re really optimized for those parts of the customer journey and then what happens afterwards after the purchase impacts on whether i’m going to be purchasing with you again or not so uh warming up the passive part of the customer base which is in mckinsey’s research there’s six times more passive customers than active customers in any particular way we need to keep them keep our brand front of mind uh for those customers as well using their own channels which are usually very very cost effective particularly if we automate that communication so what to do when i say customer journey what do i mean how to map it out well the first thing is that all the key stakeholders in the company need to actually look at the key products or the key services let’s say there’s a bank and then we map out the customer journey for a current account for a saving account for a credit card or some of those the key products that they’ve got all the key stakeholders anybody who is touching upon any of the touch points with the customers has to be in the room and we define what are the key steps in the process of researching converting using the product renewing the product and everything else and then for each of the touch points what uh each of the steps what are the key touch points so let’s say i’m researching your product uh bank bank account i can go to your website i can call uh could be an inbound phone call i can go to the branch um and probably a few other few other options each of those is a is a touch point and those touch points have to be optimized which means that all the friction that could appear in different touch points that is going to slow down the journey or stop the journey and the customer is going to drop off those touch points have to be optimized and that points of friction have to be removed and those points of friction we call pain points we need to identify where we are losing value in the customer journey and then when we do uh through the analytics uh research uh call center analytics and all the analytics all the data that we’ve got in the system when we actually see where we lose uh value uh revenue and profitability then basically we can say and what to do about it which particular remedial actions we do we need to take and by whom and basically lo and behold it’s usually that in order to plug those leaky those holes in the leaky bucket uh several teams at least have to work together in order to plug it and that’s your the beginning of the digital transformation and the more agile ways of working so customer journey mapping is an absolutely important concept now when we define touch points when we define the pain points usually we realize that at each of those critical points we need to have some value that we offer

to the uh prospects or to the customers and when i say value i don’t mean just financial value i do not mean just monetary value it could be different kinds of value that are contextual giving them something that they need at that particular point and that could also be also mean help and service if this is what they are getting in touch with us about so we need to define the value of change and that value exchange is the collection of different moments that matter in the lives of our customers so uh when we ask them for data and uh would like them to register for example for a program when we uh would like to convert them and say uh you should thinking about buying this particular product because of this this this and that all of these things should be points of the value exchange uh if i’m giving you my time if i’m giving you my attention if i’m giving you my data and finally if i’m giving you my money what do i get in return and that’s value exchange and that has to be carefully designed and that could be different things it could be something free or discounted there’s a value value exchange or the monetary value exchange but also it could be something exclusive something that money can’t buy so the exclusive access to different people different services different content different applications and many other exclusive things that money cannot buy because you’re offering me something personally relevant if i’m a younger mother expecting a child and you offer me a personalized program uh before and after my uh my pregnancy and the whole period for the first three years of actually child or the baby growing up it’s incredibly personally relevant and i as a marketer can market literally for at least five years week by week because i know all the milestones in the child development also because you’re giving me something interesting or entertaining a lot of brands actually playing on the entertainment value and the value exchange could be that because you’re giving me something useful it could be again useful and personal but useful as um an application that is going to help me live my life better easier or use the product uh in a more easier way and something finally that i can share or enjoy with other people in which case we are introducing the social currency as the value exchange and i said already something that is going to help me and enhance using the product of the service now huge help in this is actually uh introducing the automated or the triggered messages as the key driver of value what are the triggered messages very simply put today we’ve got on a very low very very cheap level we’ve got tools that can actually help us set up a stream of automated new digital messages but in the developed world that also goes to uh um uh uh mail post postal messages as well letters that could be automated on this particular case i’m thinking predominantly digital platforms emails sms’s uh chatbots and various other other digital tools that we’ve got we can actually set them up in the database and in the system so we don’t have to do anything we just have set of rules and as soon as a particular set of rule a rule happens the automated message is triggered and sent out automatically so for example somebody registers for our newsletter what’s going to happen that automatically something would go out to that customer or client sending them the first the newest edition of that letter plus a welcome message and then slowly for sure we can get them into our world kind of short or a long depending on the appetite welcome program can be triggered or for example somebody’s birthday we have an automated birthday happy birthday message or for example there’s a the the customer has bought something for the first time that we deem is important so for example i’m an online shop and i’m selling various things and for the first time i noticed that a customer has started buying baby stuff never bought it before but this is really really important trigger because that opens up a completely new stream of personalized messages for for for the for years to come and basically that particular trigger will immediately trigger a new sequence of communications for that particular customer so triggers also work incredibly well for uh shopping basket abandonment as you know so somebody abandons the basket and then as a stream of triggered messages actually is going to follow in order to try to convert that particular uh prospect or our ex-client into uh shopping and buying once again so these are triggered messages and my main point or my main contention that i’ve got outside of the anglo-saxon world

and their true masters actually they invented the whole thing is that when you look look at just the emails for example uh i don’t know how many how many people actually know but email in developed markets email is the second most profitable marketing channel of all after search and according to many research pieces it’s the second most profitable marketing channel in the world overall but i didn’t see a lot of email being used let’s say in some parts of the world which is a shame because it’s a it’s a phenomenally flexible uh and great for branding marketing channel so if you look if you if you take just emails if we look at the traditional emails that we call batch and blast once a month tuesday 10 o’clock we’re going to be sending the company’s newsletter to all the customers exactly the same compared to the triggered email that are going to be based on some sort of a contextual trigger that is going to trigger a particular email um trigger emails are actually making most of the money in the email world they are 24 26 sometimes 30 times more uh productive than the batch and blast meaning making more money uh batch and blast account for about 70 80 percent of all the email traffic in the world meaning business uh in the business sense in the marketing sense um uh whilst the trigger emails are actually making more than 70 percent of the revenue so interest it’s an interesting game when you think about it that most of the money is made on trigger but it’s much easier to do batch and blast or people think it’s easier to do because it requires a little bit of technology to do it and if you look at the engagement metrics again opening rates much higher with triggered emails click rates much higher uh for triggered emails conversion rates look this is three almost four times higher for triggered emails than for batching blast why because they are contextual we are acting automatically on a specific context so what would be the examples well there’s emails these are the platforms here’s the chatbots legal in uk uh a smart chatbot that you just asked a question do you have any australian chardonnay under five pounds and immediately the chatbot is going to give you some suggestions that’s a trigger set of messages or the one on the right hand side is even better it’s called the wine board you ask which wine goes with the chicken tikka masala which is the british national dish basically and they give you officially it’s actually a british national dish and uh the bot is going to give you uh recommendations of wine that goes really well which you can myself all of those actually pre-programmed in advance uh and through a little bit of statistics so also could be supported and people get an automatic but very relevant personal contextual message various confirmations people just made a purchase or maybe people may have just registered for uh for an email uh newsletter for example now look at this one this is a post purchase it’s great when i say creativity and emotionalization this is what i mean uh this is just the beginning of the story instead of just sending the black and white confirmation or the summary the black and white bit is at the bottom of this bit on the right hand side first of all they said as an emotional state statement love that shirt immediately they engaging with customers and the shirt is actually the shirt that was bought in that particular session so they’re actually reflecting what you just bought and then there’s the confirmation number and everything else all the important details but the beauty of it is that apart from the logo at the top and the image of the shirt at the bottom everything else is done as the live text in html which means it’s going to be seen on any in any browser on any platform and even in if the images are blocked the key information such as all the confirmation number and the delivery date are still going to be visible there as well as the slogan love that shirt so you’ve got branding even without images you’ve got the branding in the email already confirmations after registration now the left-hand side when i was registering for one ux uh newsletter about user experience design they didn’t send me the black and white thing they sent me something that you know silicon valley people would expect with the woo hoo in in the title and things like that you know super exci i’m super stoked to be on your list and similar expressions that those guys are actually using a lot and again everything apart from the logo at the top and the image of the screens at the bottom is live text in html everything is going to be seen in any browser without anything being blocked so really nice way to let me in and on the right hand side again red stuff is coming they know who they’re talking to they’re using the language of their

customers of their audiences and making them feel a little bit excited that they’ve just you just came into my world and i want to welcome you and i can welcome you in various ways i can welcome you via one email single email that is going to show the repertoire or for everything that i sell in one email or that could be a welcome email sequence the waterfall as we would call it and then you’ve got one email is just the proper welcome and and confirmation the second one is um this is something that is the best selling stuff and the third one would be another option that you said you like and suddenly we’ve got five or six triggered automatic emails that are contextually reflecting the data that you’ve given me in the registration form on the right hand side is when we were expecting a first daughter my wife got a confirmation email when she joined net mums one of the local uh new moms groups and everything that she needed to kind of start thinking about that particular journey she had inside half of the content was about beauty and we are talking about a heavily pregnant woman there was something about babies and nutrition and blah but actually half of it was about beauty and i was a perfectly targeted they really knew their audiences inside out these are the things that are some of the biggest problem at that particular period in life uh also triggered emails upsell and cross sell uh other point of purchase or maybe immediately after that or during the the the life cycle of the customer we can actually fire out messages ralph lauren immediately fired out the message based on what the customer previously bought and said complete the look these are all the other things that go well with the thing that you just bought matalan exactly the same thing using personalization through the name of the customer tracy and then saying thanks for buying uh the school uniform and here’s all the other things that your child may need for school so as you can see they came in they immediately say do not stop here there’s more things for you that actually you may like for this particular purpose and we are here to help and then immediately within the 24 hours 40 48 hours very often we see the uplift and additional money coming in all of these emails were made by machines without human intervention apart from producing the initial images that are sitting in the database the so-called assets in the asset database and then the machine based on certain rules it’s just putting all of that together and firing it out and now we’ve got access to those platforms uh very very cheaply indeed we also have examples of key moments that matter such as birthdays uh various anniversaries this is one year since we’ve been together five years that you’ve been part of our program and we want to reflect that in in different ways simply by using data from from the database it could be also seasonal we have triggered emails i’ve used to get emails for various clients um the hottest day of the year the coldest day of the year the longest day of the year the shortest day of the year uh the beginning of uh spring summer autumn winter uh there’s the christmas um easter valentine’s there’s the very lots of things during the year that you can actually set up automatic automated messages and talk to your audiences uh the machine never stops the money machine never stops as well and finally abandoned baskets uh somebody abandoned a basket would we send them just the black and white really dull boring emails saying why don’t you complete your purchase well you know what actually we can do it better this is where creativity kicks in you we emotionalize the basket we anthropomorphize the basket we actually put a lot of pretty pictures that is going to say of course depending on the audience could be this could be that but there’s certainly a lot of different ways that we can say this is your basket talking to you but it doesn’t feel boring and automatic and again the moment that you start emotionalizing you see the response rates going up significantly going up in some particular cases and that’s why i think uh automation and creativity are fantastic partners in squeezing additional value from the customer journey and then finally we’ve got renewal unsubscribes win backs the renewal the urban outfitters actually have a really good way when you want to unsubscribe uh to their email they send you an email like this and say it’s like like a chat on a thresh and say are we really seriously breaking up please don’t and then they emotionalize all the time and then even they try to downgrade you instead of unsubscribing say okay if you think there’s too too many emails coming your way okay let’s reduce the frequency maybe let’s change the topics or something else just not letting you go out of their gravitational field so in a sense what used to be emotional uh and we are used to thinking about emotion only through advertising not anymore emotional doesn’t have to be expensive

there’s a lot of creative ways that you can we can emotionalize every single touch point in the customer journey and also many of those points are going to be useful for our customers but useful doesn’t have to be boring if you apply exactly the same thinking and all of that could be done really really cheaply i’m literally talking about smaller companies now not even bigger companies smaller companies now they can squeeze a lot of value through their customer journey just by two facts by introducing triggered emails in carefully defined touch points and moments and then by introducing creativity and emotionalization in those touch points watch the response traits report back to me i bet you lunch you’re going to see huge improvements in the money that you’re getting in that’s it if you want to find out more about these principles i would advise you to go to this website is the granddaddy of customer journey optimization dma’s direct marketing association bma.org dot uk forward slash awards they’ve got a fantastic database of incredibly clever campaigns and programs and customer journey optimization programs uh and you can see all sorts of wonders that people do with these particular principles okay that’s all from me thank you for this uh i bet that you will get quite a lot of uh let’s say invitations for lunch after this but the shame is that the shame is that i don’t consulting anymore but i’m glad if this at least lights up a few light bulbs in some people’s hands and also maybe we can talk later on during the discussion where to start now you’ve got really cheap platforms that allow people like rethorizer or even mailchimp that allow people even small shops to start doing programs like that for really really small amounts of money okay but here is the point that i pass a word actually questions to david so david please it’s your turn i just have to admit this was i was taken aback by your presentation i really really loved it and i’m gonna send a blast email to all my employees just with an attachment of this presentation because this was i think i’ve never seen so comp comprehensive user journey with action points and what to do and when to do thank you thank you again um and my first question of course is uh as you mentioned in your last census if i’m a small shop so i’ve set up the shop i’ve set up google ads i’ve set up google analytics i set up facebook accounts i register to to comparison shopping is this the moment when the triggered messages come into play well they should if you ask me they should because everything you said says to me that you are financing uh the top of the funnel meaning you’re financing people coming to your shop and hopefully convert and basically i my analogy to that is like we are financing pouring water into the bucket but if the bucket is leaky we don’t keep a lot of that and then basically we need to keep pouring water keep pouring water for business to come in so for some businesses just the very fact of the first purchase can open up all the other possibilities to sell other stuff that we have meaning that uh the customer becomes a prospect for everything else that we do and the key thing is that at the point of purchase they’re going to give us some details some personal details so the key there is to have the uh communication permission uh uh given uh by the customer which means that we have to devise really really good value exchange uh idea or the mechanic in order to get a permission to talk to them later on and if we get the permission the data is already in the system we just need to start using it even before they convert we can devise value exchange data capture programs in order to capture the data even before they became customers uh so there we can treat them as leads then and we try to convert them so when they in the database that’s the moment for me that i can start automating and then i can start emotionalizing they purchase i need to send them a purchase confirmation that purchase confirmation could be automated it’s an automated message that the system fires out there’s a template that i’ve developed put into the system and that template could be really creatively done great language nice images nice colors there’s so many things we can do with it immediately and basically that confirmation email immediately says thank thank you for coming into my world isn’t that an exciting world look all the other things that we can we can help you with or that we can actually uh you can buy from us and then carefully slowly but surely that needs to be developed in advance which particular touch points and which particular points in the customer journey journey do we want to address

and how to construct those messages once that initial job is done and it’s literally no more than a month once that initial job is done basically then the system just fires out and you don’t have to do anything okay so we know about the first point the first email that we have is the action point when to start the triggered messages uh how about is it ever too late or have i missed that opportunity about setting up the triggered emails well uh the interesting thing is they’re happening anyway because most of the ecommerce system do people buy something online from you they’re going to fire out an automated confirmation anyway but what people usually don’t know are depending on the system of course is that you can uh customize that particular template so your confirmation message could be customized you can actually create an html template it doesn’t have to be just words and hey the moment that you’re in html you can play with colors you can play with live text everything is going to be visible on any browser there’s no nothing is going to be blocked just the images are going to be blocked but nothing else so you can really play with colors you can really play with words and then you can play with data because you already have the data from the from the purchase so it just requires that somebody sits and really carefully thinks about it and said what’s the best thing that the really that’s going to really inspire them and make them go wow that we can do without any money just by using the tools that we’ve got now i think it’s more knowledge and the skill and knowing this philosophy then resources so you have you you are somehow saying that you have two approaches one is the creativity that we can show and the other point of view is data driven so sorry sorry i’m actually thinking that the two always have to work together they’re not it’s not either or because even if the data i can like these guys the data was uh the confirmation for the t-shirt the data everything that was databased in uh in the email was the picture of the shirt that the person actually bought that’s based on data that’s the actual purchase image uh the order confirmation a date uh number and the date of delivery and there may be the address uh personal address of the person or there all comes from from the database and then uh if maybe some purchases let’s say somebody’s buying uh dog food we may if we are clever how we do it as part of the value exchange during the uh the purchase we maybe find find out the name of the or of the pet of the dog and maybe even the breed of the dog but that immediately allows us to personalize through the name of the dog to the picture of that kind of a dog there’s so many things that we can immediately start doing from the data that we’ve got and then wrap that up in a really nicely creatively uh creative message those two things should always work together work together but now when you’re telling me all this and i’m a small web shop now do i have enough people who can do it all those things or are there any tools who can do some of the work for me yes it’s a very good question and the usual problem that a lot of entrepreneurs actually have but again i’ve seen and my friends are running online shops one person operation who are using tools that actually allow them to do exactly that so one of my friends is a photographer and professional photographer in london and he’s got his own web online shop basically on his website so what he had done he took a kind of a really simple platform uh uh for the catalogue for the display of those of the pictures then use mailchimp he’s paying 10 pounds a month but he’s getting a lot of personalization capabilities he can play with templates with automation so he’s one guy yes he worked in the direct marketing industry for years but he’s done everything himself you also have tools such as rethorizer reference.com it’s an american platform specifically designed to develop a loyalty and crm for small shops so you may be a hair salon for example there’s only a few of you there it’s designed specifically for those kind of customers so if you check them out they actually are really good allow you a lot of things to do but it’s all quite simple to do an automated you do not it doesn’t require like weeks of learning you can you can you can get on you can start doing things within days so uh do we have any kind of artificial intelligence in this company that you mentioned okay uh it’s moving towards that now on that particular level tools are improving literally every single day on that particular level uh you will see some kind of clever uh statistics creeping in but for the moment machine learning and artificial intelligence i would say is more likely to domain of the bigger guys who the bigger enterprise package packets actually who um who have that inside the sales forces and the microsoft dynamics and

uh similar adobe marketing clouds and the similar kind of tools uh but i i i’m pretty sure uh it’s a vast space that’s thousands of those guys kind of in the market i’m pretty sure that within a year or two we’re going to be seeing new kinds of platforms again aimed at individuals and very very very small micro businesses with some ai capabilities in it uh already uh it’s no doubt this is probably already happening but certainly just around the corner okay so in your years of experience of professional experiences you’ve probably seen many cases many brands trying to to do good triggered messages or trigger campaigns uh which one would you point us out as being really good really creative uh which which one struck you as when you saw it that’s a very good question actually and i have to say it’s kind of raking my my memory there’s so many kind of things that it’s difficult to pull some but okay there’s three i would like to share actually one is apple when i registered for that bought some some of their stuff in london they registered for for their email program and they were sending me things relevant to what i bought and it was all contextual was kind of okay all automated and personalized with my name and uh a few other things but uh one email particularly struck me about three months into into the program they’ve done something that is a complete no-no for almost all of the companies in the world and that principle in direct marketing is called do not poke the sleeping bear meaning if the customer doesn’t do something do not something bad like canceling unsubscribing do not tempt them to do that and actually apple did exactly that three months into the relationship they sent me an email saying are you happy with emails that you are receiving if you’re not happy here’s the button to unsubscribe i mean that requires such a bravery such confidence in the brand to know we are doing the right thing it’s unlikely that a lot of people are going to be unsubscribed and even if they do basically that shows i mean that that email is going around like a viral email shows such a confidence in the brand that the brand knows what they’re doing so that’s one the second one is none those it was my client that i was working on their crm program for for some time basically one of the ideas that we’ve developed was a surprise and delight a bit of the journey we occasionally surprise and delight your customers and basically uh one of the ideas was a random days on a completely random day during the year we do random things for example today everybody called steve he’s going to get a voucher for a free lunch but you have to go you have to go and use the voucher this particular day yes of course then the client was tweaking that depending on the cash flow so maybe this particular idea is helping the cash flow on a particular day and so on and so forth but again it’s a brilliant idea when you’re surprising delight people and the third one is kleenex kleenex using big data in order to make it personal uh kleenex is the company that makes uh tissues uh paper paper towels baby tissues uh one of the largest in the world and then every year during the summer season during the pollen season clinics actually pulling all the data about the pollen concentration in different parts of the country in the uk for example uh live from the met office and then putting that data into their media planning strategy for that particular day but also emails and now these are actually sms messages uh they are sending to individual customers based on their geographic location and saying for today the pollen count forecast is this and that if it’s really really high be sure that you’ve got enough uh tissues with you absolutely brilliant it works like a dream okay as you’ve said we have the data driven approach and the creative approach here uh maybe just one last question before we finish and you’ve said all the do’s what we need to do what we need to take care of where are the touch points what the user journey looks like now maybe there’s one thing that we haven’t touched yet and that’s the maybe the don’ts don’t what are we try what are we supposed to try to avoid spamming people is the first thing do not send them irrelevant things send send people things that are contextually relevant to them that’s the first thing as much as you can if you can’t if you can’t personalize just do a nice creative do nice language be creative be smart be funny be interesting the most difficult thing in the world be interesting even that helps and for me the biggest thing even for smaller smaller companies even shops is do uh do not think that this is not for you because today technology is so cheap and

so simple to use anybody can use i mean individuals are using that so do not think that the thing stops at the first sale because that person they just bought something for you has become a prospect for all the other future sales all the other products that you can sell them connected to that previous sale but for that in order to talk to them you need to capture their data and then you need to have a system to actually uh that you can talk to them uh uh through your own channels uh without any huge cost um and that for me is the philosophical challenge that many small businesses have that they kind of think that this is not for them and this is literally 21st century uh the systems do exist that are right for them they are available and achievable and affordable to them well thank you very much lazar this was a very very interesting talk and uh very interesting listening in in in fact thank you so it was nice having you okay thank you both and uh it was really really a huge energizer with this uh presentation so uh if you have any other uh suggestions for us you as the audience you are more than welcome to write us your suggestions we are completely open to you and see you and listen to you soon thank you very much bye bye