28c3: Keynote – Marriage from Hell

Welcome to the 28th Chaos Communication Congress! Twenty-eight years is quite a bit of time and what we really would like to know is who is here for the first time? Cool! We we always said that or goal with these congresses is there’s been growing because from space growing the ideas face-off taking off the coast of tobacco mindset and if you look like a bit in the last year’s and so that you know probably just saying of the second half of the transport coming from this and syncing about the immune king who wanted to award tin vendor of chess anthem industries that year no one’s one piece of terrain for the first field two pieces mystic field at pieces before pieces on the for fear that it is on the four students on some exponential growth curve and what he’s saying our and this year that we ever technology development was small and the second half of two just broke that means every scene is going ever passed all the time era doesn’t mean that this will continue his way but this is hottest explanation but all things to be seeing are going to go more crazy what time because technology is driving on a recent so court-approved instigator set that you don’t buying a car anymore you’re buying a computer that has a motor and release was preferred and this is basically what what we are here about her box too to extend shipping news ideas the thing that we should keep in mind is that what we do here really matters because lots of people out there a pilotless sitting there are like here do you know in the headlines when it comes to technology development whereas we strive to try to understand what we’re doing andrea really want to understand core technology works to make it or only want to make it working for us so that doesn’t mean that every single be happy and find because but the c this year very clearly which is the fifteen you were talking about in a moment if the call sore dictatorships in the press those of us corporations have masa technology so they are buying people i guess they are able to just get the technology minds that they need by giving us money what it also means is that what we do with the community in which we do not this community what we decide to much to do redeem at us it’s not let like playing a little bit and then when the call anymore it’s we are in the center of so it’s uh… society’s development and this is something that they should keep in mind living here but about the whole in we want a refund so that’s the fun and have a nice customer cash in congress hi everyone uh… estate awful need to be speaking have you been promised to have some fun the case it’s a rather uh… gruesome subject uh… that i’ll talk about and it’s also very hard for me to be a playing this part all hot degree who stole christmas uh… this year in part because it had been repeatedly talking about the way in which the painters have been using have apology for their own purposes out the crackdown on thursdays condition surveillance tied him say that for several years but this year’s suddenly i found that the media and the public began paying attention uh… playing with argued that that happened in part because of the estranged uh… because some documents were discovered that showed up technology companies with the chain their products their solutions the dictators but in part because the conversation has turned from talking about some abstract technology of that is being used by dictators for the role that western and not necessarily western at the college accompanist a plane in supplying toxicologists aside and let the people suffering from talking just about the college in the abstract factually taking some of these companies in the box at which is interesting and which is also something that the media can easily play on uh… but again i just would like to emphasize before we get into the

substance of this and stuff meeting of the same points have been made for many years including that many people in this audience this is not any discussion he did not start this year this year’s when the media suddenly picked up uh… on some of the the messages totals like the kotian before proceeding further is that this is an orphanage him a comprehensive overview of every single technology in every single company dennis are being used by dictators there are hundreds of that uh… i will point you immediately the couple of interesting the sources some of you and they have seen those bloomberg has put together this very interesting his allies eason apart for depression which illogic action click on a particular country uh… n c bowls uh who’s buying this technology with kind of technology address who’s supplying at is dynamic you can browse arsenio prime and he will get a much better overview off me ok particular technologies and companies involved we just mentioned to others defray some of you may have some despite files which were put together by the police on e uh… private international and a bunch of other partners uh… which delivers many of the same information is somewhat different format for more investigative peter with all search for the check out the wall street journalists uh huge serious calls from the ship incorporated which actually has some nice tariff uh… and still does bloomberg individual excite which actually dole to the specific uh… detail uh… all four technologists will competence and so for us and so forth so they’ll take the more of a macro level do you and try to focus more on uh what’s happening in what we can do and why maybe with some of the solutions of haven’t proposed by extinctions are not going through in coastal the problem are you saying that this is a tactical williamson you guys know a lot of the stuff much better than i do so i’ll just thought i’d be very uh default talking about particular technologies hot-selling law out walked out of the year dictators are using and for what purpose is to some of it itself all of this is trying to control communication channels whether it’s email whether it’s text messaging summer it is done uh… going to be a primitive basis just like i can keywords somewhat is done though through with more sophisticated by looking at occasion and invited for users or landfill thing is something that known for a while nibbling on for decades uh… again that’s a new fear intelligencia survey into something that wink is interesting being supplied by chinese companies and talk about that in a second at companies like whoa they who are expanding all over the world anna providing video surveillance supposedly morning for a traffic on the role months and some problems like these they claimed that they were to provide long distance education uh… while uh… it is reasonable to expect that many of the same thing for disturbing the souls of mourning for protests artists and and what not what i found but equally uh interesting and disturbing for example in tunisia as staff it’s not just sarbanes exploit this morning pouring with people go are you may have seen the recent story bloomberg use snapped uh… discussed how the tunisian disorders actual more defined the content of some email messages and either job source putting some gibberish and then to confuse people war as in one piece this custom that article that’s windsurfing for example pornography images and work in a way to females right that way that i think there is and about perhaps discipline starts creating uh… gary disturbing tramp with people and the longer confident and at the college days again this year will talk about the companies that provide them but this is more last what’s happening and the first question that i stink crisis minimum alliance that’s why we can just damn pissed apologists wide temperatures bambi’s companies from supplying this year to dictators i think your the insists that it’s very hard to implement any kind of global ban that would actually bam all technologists and all the political parties from being supplied for conference i’ve just listed city case s which i think well help you browse wide it’s very hard to implement vans and sanctions report well and the first case you haven’t met him company blue coat that the some of you may know has been building mostly uh internets and the shipment of holding motive and that’s the college ended up in syria and thanks for the efforts of our phila comics to be figured out that the top it is actually being used in syria even though uh… united states government prohibits western while american companies from selling technology to syria well what happened in that case is that blue coat claims they wear selling this technology to the distributor in the united arab emirates actually claimed that the ultimate destination the pope is here was a rock

uh… internal sanctions out when the rock in blue coat said that he was so it was going to a lot it ended up in fear and sorrow problem uh… now forced uh its distributors for taking the fire for this because the western companies just clean the floor us we should go to some place and that it ends up within away exactly things up not at the college a company that recently brought into are working for this ism israeli company uh… which one last thought it’s often disagree with that problem the claimed they were just having to call you tube and mark and um… the the citadel and i’m mark was actually contractually obligated to keep that the collision that mark but that that the project up in a row which as you can judge uh… is not particularly good news with israeli company because uh… again there are outlaws intentions but he did invent from detained with straight in iran and now providence offering uh… the huge for when the stock markets this company uh… all cities skis executives just getting quite a few years in prison and huge filings uh… began the excuses not to pull in the dark now that’s the biggest fans one example had lost example here is again an american technology company and got out used to run uh… an application uh that was eventually bought by nato and company called area and this company a uh… because there were no sanctions on doing any kind of technology work in syria was actually fyi to ship this technology to serious so we end up was uh ten-gallon company getting some here from the americans sending them to see a which again if it was done that that would be a little sanctions would uncover it uh… again that’s not managed to get away even go bloomberg had uncovered emails that showed up madcap engineers rachel available to the cordiales heading for syria and that they were actually configuring it an in the process again the only thing that can be down here and i’m just to a failure to do some stories from this is that they can week and then the distributors thank you can make sure the distributors sekali ke latin america but i like it in the european union that they actually suffer the consequences and that they’re banned from shipping any of these here uh… to countries from the dictators that come out i think he’s not going to be uh… full effective in part because it i just so many other countries removal from the state right there one of the recent reports from one of the seven skiers stuff and the washington post uh… estimated that the representatives from about forty three countries buying technology here and obviously a lot of this country’s are not in the european union that the more than the west and that’s i think useful to think what would happen if uh… some of this american and european uh… serbians gear is being shipped the same old ball was also them it’s actually interesting that uh another decent article by bloomberg actually from the representative from cells of them if one of those uh… patrol educators an experience i think this also damage just five months old uh… as a country invalidated the market for buying serbians here but the question dot of course becomes what happens the distributors and what kind off uh… what kind of intermediaries will emerge from those of you put on notice that this is that they’re both one of the approval of the world’s most famous for its modeler who’s currently in the tension in uh in manhattan uh… who made his money and he’s been buying uh… training last arms and supplying them from western europe uh… to africa within the next aka alice must be some confidence the question is inflicted both was the star accused for you today what he choose to be in the serbians business and i think that’s marked analytical question to ask because the more sanctions to impose the morning commuters who make eventually marriage who will build their business essentially finding field governments in you name it mobile as also balance the budget on the way any other country uh… convincing them to purchase armenians here from america and europe you’ll be able to pressure that serbians here because there are no privacy interests against them and unconvincing those governments to shove that the earth to anti-castro that’s here it was wrong i think this is quite realistic and this will be happening and the fact that the latest sol some shipments that the destined to be in at all uh… end up in serious suggests that beyond mail lady half some people who alike to beat the book of cooperating uh guests uh intermediaries in this business that i know that i want to make intentions hysterical sanctions differ invesco them in their usefulness you have some sanctions which uh… hurts ordinary users america has plenty of such sanctions uh b

for example have sanctions one uh… georgia compa nies a technological when he’s doing business in syria which ends up hurting ordinary steering users soared as your users have problem by credit on skype uh… because our sanctions uh… that make it very hard were impossible but their card for the closet company structure of the business to have to go on a plane all sorts of licenses which then ends up hurting users i know for a few examples of american sanctions for example which single out pretty clean d d jill’s they would say that american companies the prohibited doing business from individual caps and on the uh… his last name first and then will go up and what we will see is that some of their can’t confidence especially internet hosting companies would refuse to do business was indian nationals of that country because they do what we want to be a refined that the person binding from the cost and is not from the sanctions list itself there are some secondary unintended consequences from sanctions which may actually go to a new users into something that we need to keep in mind for government by the way orphan managed to get away this in discovery by i think we’ll see the lapd i found that uh the area six their respective is some government entities of syria actually lost their websites in canada in the u_s_ at the window again that those that i can buy elation of the sanctions but government entities have all sorts of secondary players they can rely on and fold their problems so again i would urge you distinctive heart about what some of the unintended consequences might be near section for the other hand artworks that they’ll from very ineffective because again dublin’s setup other shell competence that created the role of companies that have banned by exceed the european union now there’s sanctions against doing business with some syrian competence that work and a telecom industry if you look at the justification for those sanctions these they have those companies additional competition this year and government again you’ve been one compa ny another company pops up and you continue sleeping wait for it to make sure that those companies are not connected one of the suggestions that has been proposed uh… in which to solve this problem was through force companies who actually wait for who their customers are in to do what you did utility villages are on the list for sp and i think it’s probably told that it’s much easier to open out to actually by serbians gin dee wallace them to open a bank account and the in the american bank in part because the banking industry has been forced to do view diligence on their customers they have to be refined again many of us don’t like it because it uh… it reads more problems with privacy please again additional severance but there are a justifiable wilson graduations that can actually make sure that our own western technology companies that do business was clients in the middle-east actually engaging bantam weight for it what’s happening mark just at the time of sale but all said the time or fuels whenever those records as i used to being used to be weakening report was using down the house because of the mortified and so forth sc again indicates walsh uh… area that the call-in furman that top we do have avedon subnet that’s engineers actually knew that the technology ended up in syria which again sas that we need to make sure that the juniors don’t just say hey we noticed here but the direction of the caption invision whistle blowing what they want another interesting debate that they think is beginning to happen hi in western europe and in the west as how much of this no leo customer whom we can actually delegate the technology andy i think they’ll be the report that have a controversial debate which reviewer portraits of the them to what extent which would actually have tools which is one article just that are used for even services censorship under the general argument again kill switches in this crowd to be the digest evil and that by when surgical technologists are used on c_ uh… technologies that are used for bob dole today and you don’t see how and in fact the closing off that uh… technology would actually be a bad thing so i think there are some valid the dates that they have to drop sense for example now place in that sense of technology that though it’s not ok they claim that the actual more need for where the technologies have been lost in the next morning for forty thousand customers and if their technology ends up being used in syria they just make sure that they either don’t how do you know that or that they somehow remotely uh… during office again i’m not sure that sexual happening but they claim to be engaging in continues the diligence the question here of course it is very complicated and that’s how can they justify using more surveillance immortals which is when we actually talked against sardines and fills richest pet generally and this is awful benefit uh… there’s no other way from twenty four was being done with this technology excel for declining technology companies to engage in more service of their customers which again may be justifiable indicated it on

when the case of syria but we need to make sure that the same thing is not happening uh… when clients in the last days against against the war of controversial down but i would like to urge that to just to point out that this is not my while thinking dole section some ideas debated by some ngos like texas now for example in the west so it may be happening and i think it’s useful to participate in some of these debates out what the anticipate making these additional probably in very short term get worse it will get worse because on the one hand i think this is a duration of the middle-east is more slowly easy in clear cut as it seems how do any of the year again government for example started engaging in social fifth filtering which means they now banned for another few websites which were not actual event on the qaddafi a house is a reporter that in arabic lost work which is a very disturbing development but they didn’t meet flight that they will be more controversial skins depending on which with solutions going in bosley detainees in asia and of course it issues radically different in the old city but given the countries which have supposedly been liberated by the recipient i would argue that that’s the issue is not as clear cut as it seems to make sure the same one more use salts opening intervenes in different formats uh… in each country but the troubles me is that it will be on the bed elicitation are also promises to get worse the city for its former u site from about six dollars riskier and for those of you who don’t know the estudio stencil collective security guarantees nation which is kind of an nato block of the former soviet union both guys again it is really concerned about their spring pocket and their first encounters of course to uh calls the ramani pouring in surveillance systems so we are beginning to see more cooperation within those countries we see them passing um the strategy document whistle-stop spain for securing the cyberspace of the member states and they have the explicit in saying that would be willing to do is to prevent another airplane one way to do a good within visual surveillance show ghost hunters and that’s asian male welcome to come from it those numbers have more can be reached in purchases of serbians gear with its camped out front is scanned the middle-east themselves as the haven’t used it so we will see new customers we don’t know really what’s happening in russia how much do you guys actually being supported by the ice these on the man’s from athens the it may be the case that all of the passing through the former soviet somehow ends up escorted by uh… those high season if need be the case that russia will come to the gate of some of those countries of the need to identify a particular blow over again this is something to keep an eye on i’m just are going up probably and i think that he just additional get much worse than it used to be one disturbing development of the sky find troubling is that china is beginning to flex its muscles in his companies are beginning to period that was passed around the world that some apple for these presence in africa lazy knows one of the largest uh mobile network mobile group of companies on parvaz uh uh… milk is immense uh… and others of that heart actively spreading around the globe and that are supplying technology about again is configured in a way to the bill although flew into exile uh… the fact that this or chip and that they are all from the chinese government actually helps to subsidize the implementation of those tough words because it fits within the chinese foreign policy is also something very troubling and i think that we need to keep a close eye on the field is not the section outdated by a few years eyelids gas if if you look at harding’s presence an african uh… virtually every single country would be covered but you also see news items like this which mostly go unnoticed so this is a very diagonal about china’s economic aid from although i which would not normally appear on the one st enough people sitting in this audience with the fugitive mostly interests you that the chinese now supplying the mold on government is the author of an systems which again deeply missed which is more reporting at old trafford but again in the times of protest in the hatch in those protest melo in two thousand in mind began the turned against the protesters who used in the identified them with wise-cracking them or whatever all that is happening for free you from just a bit avalanche of the cheney state something much closer to where i come from from palestine now that i was in those regions within the chinese and develop some governments about again club in supplying some video surveillance technology written by at the local office of clothing style staff it’s just for you know theory but now you assess traffic management lebed is the centerpiece of local security but i think that have been asked by the wall street journal was actual much more open about video purposes in sap that’s what you poor and found centers and potentially preventing terrorism in the plot uh… again the extent to which this is subsidized by the chinese government we don’t know the extent to which uh this is the ultimate way too

virtual facilitate surveillance by the government for political purposes we don’t know but this is something that is worse keep an eye on because what the chinese are doing in this case is much less visible boston to blast but it’s also much hotter to convince the chinese companies with the same kind of persuasion but we can convince the rest of conflicts they did not react the juliet somewhat in our view some examples of them actually changing their behavior but it’s much harder to convince them than to convincing ortiz emmons uh laughing again the lead of assignments which is just one merger to that is that we actually have some western academics when this particular example academics who’ve worked at the university of california los angeles u_c_l_a_ uh… who actually taking money from the chinese government to supple and profits messages we basically higher uh… you know i people who’ll whatever the stadium before on the stand on the combine it with their software and end up with this very nice scotch image to pack systems which actually it’s all part of the main challenges in video surveillance remake of intelligent conduct weekly at the ship research because now you can search views with tact because whatever is being seen on those forces being labeled for making this a map of data indices of the search it now the question is why do we have people who are working in american and western university is taking money from the chinese government uh… to build slash seven systems so it may be entirely benign and the number one but i would argue that that is not enough attention uh… paid to what’s actually happening in this field and i would see that there are many emerging technologies like this but talking about four point of stop i’m talking about something uh… much more cutting out you know to me the facial recognition technology is so also resolved at the mining uh techniques which are still quite off initially choir quite a bit of academic expertise out to be for them our and i think this is an opportunity to keep a close are you want all sorts of academic institutions who are taking money from him in the competence and that governments and you know chinese mobius elephant in the storm i think we need to be much more careful in terms of what the search is being done and to sensitize the researchers to the petition so what it is said that the way now the more upbeat apartments presentation will can actually be bound by ordinary uh… activists and that is in some people concerned for the future of the internet and yeah i would say that there are two things for the domino there’s a picture of them in advance and i think there is some kind of pyramid that is emerging i think first of all it’s very easy for us to turn the tables on surveillance industry and start engaging in surveillance of that understood attitudes becoming easier and easier touching wait the more of what they’re doing in part because this companies have been careless in the last few years and they have you leave debilitating was to be do you all of public finance that they shouldn’t have given the atrocious thing but they’re doing so for some investigative journalist you know this is there and uh… silver from bloomberg you know this guy wrote a book today saying at three thousand five hundred year old all you know chalice from kuwait and i would put his attention to investigating buddhist ecological blizzard intended this is a dream come true because he’d actually engage in very nice investigative work the precinct shipments to investigative journalist this is great but i would argue that also for people hallmark card carrying investigative journalists poor people who see it you know their computers like most of us it is also possible to engage in start keeping a close eye in this company’s so this is sponsoring a web site on both a solid foundation in the last uh… they’re loving back where you can actually see it that uh… local assistants the company that hired that was selling building technology to syria claiming that that was going to rock you hired law passed in the back sherwood rowland shock with those lobbyists are you committed an entire p_t_a_ off truly where they come from a lot of this information is public resulted in an r_u_ on something warrants you know expert controls on the spot side the keeping some key award that would be within seven technology would also like to see what’s changing who’s hiring cool again this was not well reporter analyst what offense to this law that is the hired bible called in out of washington post into what that would have allowed local high it down because they were about to be slow and actually in the middle of this news about them selling people taking exterior special sold the company at twice the market capitalization for about one point five bill in dollars so the government of the wall that’s what i’m saying is that we can actually see some of the hundred bs approves assessment female isn’t close attention to sites like this uh… telecom is that they did an amazing job with setting up this weekend blow cabinet where you can actually cargo and report on what some of these companies are selling linked to my reports link the news reports link a particular news items up again i think

it’s a beautiful project the peekskill i think if all of you don’t start investigating each of these companies adding more information for the senate will advance much more but also the media with that’s much more uh… just to give you call this one of example all what national media still placed an influential as opposed to global media like wilbur so bloomberg has been reporting on this appellant company hot area for if you would support a few months it into a paulus might damage to the compa ny until he fell in newspapers picked up the story so canada let’s set a pick up the story began interviewing the executives within a few days and of course the roles of protest against there is some of them by the local product body which also used his attention in the felony dea uh… after that happened immediately interest that nowhere exiting this market at the editing his business i would like to this wouldn’t have happened it was just more workable for the journal you donate local media to engage u_s_ newspapers in the khalil were in germany going from print them are considered them in the north of twenty chaplain to local companies engage in this state so making sure you find the local equal impulse whoever does his job for bloomberg who covered us to drop wall street journal will be amazing convincing the editors that you need dedicated team and that would happen cuz bloomberg those people are dedicated tracking this in few four-year and he’ll be able to make results so uh… if you have any influence with your national newspapers go and argue that the need to dedicate people put out the deeper confidence and and how did you do this investors can be persuaded as well uh… summer you may have seen this item from earlier this year when on come on particular of financial fund actually decided to divest from cisco because they couldn’t get satisfying answers about of course work in uh… in china identity i think we must of those companies tracking where they get their money and impassioned investors i think it’s another thing to do but also investigating individual conflicts so i was was small while doing research for the skilled i came across this company colors wireless and i saw there was a mansion from despite files but there were no files attached to it was just batch of two months johannes accomplished by the correct and others with no brochures nothing infringes be the best known scanning the bush was the does nothing that you could find so that’s something out online and almost like a disciple company has a dentist doctor venture capitalist from the network nevada meant that there was one of the executives and basically gave the all pulling in black and to see that their technology is being used by government agencies in the middle east africa and asia pacific regions you know it including the asians are being this is something of the inside on the record read them off the fatal stabbing public knowledge would think and on the figure out what it is a bachelor cell that missile technology which the fellow stempel draco gatherings of people with mobile phones to help create some kind of a jury found some more report anyone free and preserve for the mobile phone is that the entity do it in the old time to do it historically is so you can actually go one cannot forceware weeks time uh… you know one more day and that’s you know they claim it’s old but i think there is its gaze at the use of technology to track the pastors right you can go and historically analyze who was where two given public square for time and i’m going to worry about the doorstep for than the actual promising to the rules of who could offer some kind of data mining and start incorporating you know social baidoa social media data process to this thread that seems like one of these people so public about and then just give you some more news reports and you should be just opened an office in the middle is based in dubai but they’re planning to sell the more surveys defrauded to those governments he said they just double their manpower in india it’s going to be a good year for them rebekah the the people i’m sure that this lights is that because this competition honest moral us avoid it any public scrutiny so far the media the threat of alabama more for the call of the media who don’t actually care about this evidence implications but i think it’s more smiled at some places a call to them on the school’s calm but he warns that the u_s_ onto the governments in the middle-east why exactly have the open this office uh… what exactly was saying from the bar invited bill the president of the day on serbian spare that’s happening in the body aren’t the problem for so this is something it can be done by individuals is something that can be done but what was the people in the pit and that’s the whether by mortified you know the way the wiki off of that adela comments or just by falling up on the report from bloomberg i don’t think that given the crisis investigative journalism that we have these days dot even newspapers and news outlets like bone broken wall street journal will be able to go and investigate the hundred companies this is something that needs to be done in the cold sores matter and i think this is the kind of subject that can actually be tracked down from open sources because this companies have just been so public about at some of those companies have huge allies which again can be embarrassed

uh… the investors can be embarrassed i mean this is something that the dam needs to be investigated and started on this is something the individual bloggers to do and they’re not all of those companies have allies some of them all to have his balls claiming that they actually proud to be supplying technology to iran and i have been again this is something that boggles my mind but uh this stuff needs to be trapped and the executives need to be questions about what exactly makes them so proud to be supplying this technology uh… to some of the most historic and governments uh… in the world but i think how much more ambitious passed in if you think of this pyramid that up right liberal this basic investigative or outsourcing that again i think about the political bodies inside the dairy basis with their foundation of this cabinet i think the second important task as for us to activist a journalist for intellectual support the colleges to start linking the sales of this technology to three karen states to the actual developments uh… in domestic surveillance in democracy it’s again this world has not been made by most news reports we think the best knowledge is building a quid for the purposes of the middle-east no this technology is built for the purposes force the western world personages and that’s the next handle i would argue importing about this technology when we talk about it to the public may have sent this letter which will be in capsule aids this debate really well that’s a letter from one of the women one of the people who runs of these big surveillance fear that has generated so much coverage who told you to go on in this wedding full because it just again perfectly encapsulates blodgett most of the surveillance industry in the west but also the rest of law enforcement agencies daniella just for the district and everything is was reading in full shelved well at least should basically she’s complaining for the wall street journal editors they have taken on this investigation which is claiming that well you know the more guys you talk about that that you would ross perot happened united states because he was diverted strata insyaallah drops in the seven cents torture stay a little paragraph i think it’s very important she basically saying dot abt this coverage will create an atmosphere the congress isn’t likely to pass an update that will fall into stocks on wall the won’t require social african companies to deploy special features to support foreign forstmann without the update the opportunity for u_s_ companies to develop a new launch interest abroad as the master clip for eventual export will be very quick retail that that’s a powerful statement exaggerated the wholesale grocers who thinks and first of all indicated any help in suppressing their presence you know we are here to help will do it it’s it’s cool second is that now they can help in johnson went to china and just happen to think is the more important part this stuff the main driver this market of the use of the u_s_ law enforcement unfair was written in the last of the german law enforcement this law enforcement assault force so i think we need to really cold city parts for the slaughter at them and i think the first one is the reason for the kill if you’re going to have the quotes from some of the people of all from the school sports just nicholas indeed walked stamp edited this analysis includes anything about launcher writer who knows the debate so when you have a job a plus for us to serve and spheric leaving dot this technology is absolutely vital for civilization and if you can have a cities in the bad guys can communicate to you by intersection now that such a little i mean right now if you i think about it for their lifetime workforce with them have been perception people it is uh… you know if you know they managed to that mobile phones digital system data mining and they were doing fine you know the actual solving everything that they need to solve without having the capability making financial whatever and i’m just saying that this statement itself was to destroy the rise because if you like about his today dot logic you can go through all of this concede that you could actually attack the premises there and embarrass the people making those arguments and the media or elsewhere the second point about china’s going out jobs closely but this is somewhat ridiculous i did point out that companies like what they and others idea of hard to persuade but actually if you look closer they also this long to embarrassingly accommodation vast media in part because all of those companies half conditions for the western markets as well so you have twelve h was built on a get into the american market for a decade now and they cannot because this is backed up data connection for the chinese government so every time the wall street journal about the argument an analytical embarrassing for me for doing business with iran the gap hw pressure to actually get out of it on so now they kind of panetta total all those seeking plants around the just to keep the whole point more thought again let me just be a smoke screen they were still being bolt but that argument that somehow the chinese companies will fill in this market again mister to scrutinize some of those drops the more they performed

by drug companies like what they in both companies also used form to embarrassing incentives this part about length of domestic i mean something is something we we need to focus our energy in intellectual effort including cooper debuted some of those reports from window intelligence there is some serbian spheres symbol also are carefully you’ll see that this largest representatives from around the or earlier syria away any other country vests mindlessly recarey bank of the qualities such as steve that you know you have representative for more than solidified government agencies of the west attended those fears to buy their technology made including even the interior department station while file wildlife service but its this is the deal corinth industry vo sab video people paying for those solutions and i think we have to go back and look at some of the arguments dot in the yard and other law enforcement agencies have been making about their inability who century war unless they have this lawful interception pulls this is where do you want to be to stopping that trade licence laughlin sanctions in those being much more critical about the actual needs of our own the massive more enforce the nation’s so for those of people who don’t know about that but i was going dark problem it’s basically a and after that the f_b_i_ launched about five years ago where they applying on the one hand too will build the loss and passed laws that will allowed them to say well below at you know the same level of local interest up we’ll find communications on c_ on social networking sites war here to peer sites and services as they have swiss uh… foam and so they want to be able to intercept real-time communications that for wild side of existing walls uh more effectively but they also in the meantime double only trying to pass laws that also investing in pools into something that you need to understand that day often lasting until school standards to those polls come from defeated the testimony off f_b_i_ general counsel uh… through the senate religious here you’ll see that she’s actually gary uh… open about uh… what they’d be i wants and they don’t want to build a new released from walking to stop committee should be in the land deal time but what she’s claiming to be very and the second quarter things much more interesting she’s basically saying that and the i understand stuff individual tailored solutions which affords us industry could ease too busted exist to provide are old enough and that they have to do the exception rather than the rule messages that i’ve made that both of the art doesn’t want to be candidly for today davis in the state and that they would allow the passing you more in them private industry out of existence which i think it’s a very clever before plumes but for us and activist side there’s always something that people just that filled the small comes from a block walls that you can buy a staffer at the affair but that doesn’t get anymore brophy them when perot internet uh liberty of the mia farrow handbook this week with the staff of felonies claiming as that as long as f_b_i_ can build falls daffodil distraught safely without compromising business privacy you know what that was a risk being very secure you know basically they can build the perfect religion and use it for surveillance them it’s much better than a breeding ambassador you wallis and if you see that the kind of arguments invokes here that is not thinking about the schools and then being used by a search engine sheets rise it’s all about the efficiency and effectiveness of building tools dot com or politician and i think now out that we have scene uh… with the hats in this year department has more on the panel well i mean by this it’s more on that sample of the show all goin embracing of a new version of kelly i wish to do this war the politic wire no building back doors what i mean by this is that will also need to consider the building individually tailored pools awarded for users also have secondary facts and the secondary facts i basically entrenching dictatorships round-table shell this is something that we need to consider and this is actually good because if you think about it it’s actually allows us to argue against filia writes it allows us to say that walk right now reality at the point where f_b_i_ has created an industry where they can warning for everything they want and that they’ll probably a to make people actually spent some the student government and more because then the dictators who have access to the same that doris i think they have to be a good any political opportunity for people in this moment to actually start actively arguing that disposal enough we have to regulate them they have to say each of them but there is no way that the f_b_i_ shouldn’t will be needed to build the new law with required will be back doors i think this is very important for the media to pick it up because of the don’t

pick it up will continue talking about sanctions and since nothing of that sanctions visible or opportunity here which does it lead to the master debate this investment if you that we need to embrace the other point did a lost one of the standard that i’ve been trying to build that i think away you know when to start was investigations of those companies continue to have in the debate about domestic service fee lost point he’s going to get the foreign policy element in all of this right what i mean by this something very simple weekend of course damn western companies sc from selling technologist to countries like iran it’s much harder to make that argument the policymakers but saudi arabia because western governments petula quite okay with saudi arabia nor most the best anxious on them so again we need to make sure that all four paws on polls and sanctions does mark driven past from also engaging in a bowl of foreign policy debate i’ll just to give an example of hollow influential the existing foreign policy position find this reconsider the fate of cisco systems does all of you know has been accused of supplying uh powers to the chinese and actually selling those photos was explicit arguments that they can use them for paramount incidents in no poland’s imports of human rights groups announced you insist on not just one but several it’s a company that has a reputation problem but less than this one i would assume so when you see any is i don’t like this venues item from while two thousand and ten as basic thing is that in about the u_s_ state department taking it delegation off technology competition that shows you that the state department arranged a meeting for executive francisco was the syrian president vacancy on top of that fix and how does that square was the rapid improvement in the three of them and everything else about the of the state department and others have been advances and it might happen is because i can tell uh… this year c_r_a_ was an ally right so it was okay to be a actual arranging shipments over routers surveys the collision walked off those whose names that and nursing much has changed to actually see the later that year structurally he seemed in the war from the state department was corporate excellence gillam all the violations and all the lawsuit from what i would have been having in china north where if so please see if there’s an ally in part because the companies have been working on have mauldin high priority foreign policy-wise it’s not just american companies he actually did many of those reports in the wall street journal and washington paulson elsewhere coldly you will see about that in french even european double triple prettier complicity you know the wall street journal for example uh speculated dot them against what they are serbians capacity about about who was visiting france and he managed to negotiate uh… if we start closing his people empower back down again lydia was seen as an ally all i’m saying here is that we need movie on this walk was oranges uh just because we need all to do scrutinize engagement uh… current engagements the dow western governments have this conference olestra scrutinize wilson vigilance we will have a past any wallis that will prevent the seal such technology to saudi arabia botany thank you tom is a very easy target it whites behavior on whether it’s the european union was as the u_s_ government no one likes them if you can’t on the other hand about saudi arabia about rain though so much more complicated cases in part because we actually see american and i would assume german weapons humbling to saudi arabia magazine sixteen billion were some problems was sent to saudi arabia by the united states government alone anionic pales in comparison to serbians here whatever survey and he ends up in saudi arabia and it’s a what needs to change is not as possible i think in the abstract about banning no paid to the polls from being exported they’d need to use this debate is up but you just put in august the engagement that our government half of those jeans and i think the democrats especially an example of the claim that they wanted for a forty thousand of the users enables users and up in syria they were torn off their service i wouldn’t doubt that they will not bring of the service of those users i knw i pray you know and and and saudi arabia at them again that’s a problem that used to be sold from the front porch paper than just the expert the pundit ripples of politics but also it’s an opportunity for gifts people who are beginning to think about it politically and whether it is for the firefighters with telekom it’s a stronger into this specialist think much more explicitly a about the foreign policy dimension for their work uh… i don’t think it’s about paint all for those and refused to pay anything to do some change that’s possible and i also think it’s plausible factually depot reclaim exported to the current fascination with several of the internet and their spring there shouldn’t be a court of arguments

that at all so much about the internet but that are about foreign policy process because on last week start engaging in this vicious in a much more political and strategic matter will still end up was made it governments that affected by western allies benefited from western technology and i think i’ll stop here and this will have them a list of questions thank you i know that i might stick i would assume that if you want us to get there confusion so if you a burning faster questions just ask it it is a question about could you will leverage on these sort of social filtering that you mentioned is being used in libya he had and it’s something that just came out by the one paperwork dot is there in there but that’s the way ability there but i saw one of my colleagues contracts that the in arabic appointed me for that article as far as i understand they’re beginning to filter out pornography websites uh… and again uh… that person gets a close eye he wants to open an initiative heat to work to keep gives rickles i’m leaving and he claims that while qaddafi was in power after all the company that they have less political so they would fill that out access the web sites with a specifically about with an opposition but they would not filter access to move in a sense of pornography or you know seems like that uh… that’s all it now i haven’t seen any information about it in english but the staff of war story off if you work for these features or something okay and if you get a little credit plus for creating the market in the first place if it weren’t for our law enforcement agencies the whole market would be exist basically led the company’s fell for sending this stuff we may to other countries as well and i think the solution is not too bad the exports to iraq but to bend the whole thing make it by today and something that will rogue nations like uh… u_s_a_ will still go to i mean you have to do you have to bend the whole thing on the other ways that won’t go away it’s not ok to export restricted denmark will meaning the perspective from better and an effort by the reason i truly know and i think when i showed you some of the statements from those guys from the survey and scariest you on this day that civilizational collapse if you byron perception and that many people and i know the washington to do about this a live in america many people in washington within senators and their staffers who know nothing about the quality that should be live those statements rights of the question then becomes how some people actually from technology hoa hackers who knows something actually communicate that all lead story and that is essentially practical as you have seen all of those two political parties have lobbyists all of them a half communicators all of them know how to control the conversation right until now was an exceptional this news coverage in bloomberg usable to join them in elsewhere i did in the sea anyone actively seeking the perspective for us you know they can guys like in the audience yet so the question maybe how to build an effective communication strategy and how you can actually make sure that this conversation is not dominated by law best but actually a flag factories evidence dot important say the plot he doesn’t have intercepted abilities were a few years there was a sham hasn’t collapsed but it’s a question of communications and i think that some things that need to be addressed maybe one of the contents of this event nato an amazing job of communicating this dollars to five seven thousand people i’m just curious if iraq any staffers who worked for u_s_ senate race in this audience andy allen is probably the key word that we want to have any staffers working for senators in this audience but that was they share a massive stick on this issue will be conducted you know and dominated by people who claimed civilizational collapsed that’s a problem with you guys need to solve this how to communicate it’s not necessarily a problem off uh… you know having to make a deposit proves that some of the shimon peres i think one thing we ask activists can do is point doubts uh on how different keys surveillance is sold to governments and to citizens especially in democracies especially in europe city

retention assault the government says that the idea of solution to track bruce of uh opposing interest whereas it’s sold to the citizens of something and that helps to protect you from terror and i think this is one of the lines we can also we can also hit make it clear that for the government this means something totally different than they communicate man after lady again a lot of dance is a question off making those arguments visible in public but i think most of the airplane provides an excellent historical opportunity you guys can essentially hijacked a very emotional narrative about the struggle for democracy in the meadowlands which still dominates a lot of newspapers and make sure that you absolutely block about tonight’s events and you do end up making arguments about what’s happening back at home one of the witnesses oldest article simple american involves the journal i think was that very few of them actually traced the rules of the problem to domestic seven and that’s i think the next hour and i think it’s good if you can manage to in insert herself if you will and those conversations would actually be able to read them indonesian and whatever the action you want point the limits of domestic surveillance one st boy christmas soft some of the struggles against there is more than a small so now the time to do a i’m afraid of a year the media attention will be there yesterday i think mister tucker carlson wintertime right sir thanks for ur predator i think it’s important to me at fifty-six so-called lawful intercept instead of just lawful intercept because what this is actually an expansion of police powers at least in most of the places in which this technologies being developed it would be an expansion in the countries where it’s developed it’s also an actual capability extension the places where it’s all of my cancer there’s something to about that and so i think framing it as an expansion is very important and we should reject the expansion just as we should actually reject the core itself but i would never taken a step further we should say we should finding individuals who run the company’s photographs of the on their face book profiles all that stuff and we should publish that information because these people are essentially like which a homa during the second world war with ibm these companies notification of rights abuses they custom tailor the for the update them it’s not like when you sell a car the nicest people when they threw me out of their wiretap respond washington d_c_ this said don’t we just sell this stuff and it’s like a car and it’s really important to note that it is not like a cards it is more like a tank where you say you’re going to provide service and you’re going to provide ammunition and you’re going to provide ammunition that specifically targets felon gong and that’s important rights it’s an expansion with a individually target people based on political socials sexual and so on and and other beliefs as well as actual properties that are at their intrinsic to those people and then they killed them and that’s what they do with this technology it’s an arms industry where the murder people and so if an extension of murdering people as i think a really serious problem and so what we can do though is we can find the people that are involved with that and we can turn the tables on them and ownership out all of them the patriot act thank you maggie was this was one of us have uh again i think it’s even worse than that because it’s very problematic ineffectual nonsensical to talking about some bright lawful intercept in the context of around where the government can bend the laws of warns and that in out the debate category of walpole all kind of disappears and resolved so many of those days because that is that the rule of law doesn’t the u_n_ sense so as long as there’s the colleges are being developed on the promise that paid their cable but because they have lost something actually that i can control that people in the west but it doesn’t apply in the history there as the federal anything we have to be quite explicit in saying dot something that explicitly recognizes technological local interests off also pull off a winter stuff is not all warm pool by any is that it not sure when is this a dictatorship because there are models of law and all systems that will actually read the latest news so this is also a rhetorical a peculiar thing is that it’s lawyer because the fact of the competence again i have more put back in the executive and it’s getting pressure suggests that i know that some of these searchers is out of the media or tried to go out there it’s a popular product core which is based in germany have basically been told that if you don’t mean represent what we are what we say that they could to court and that the question is how can they actually make sure that our media can you put in those compliments

of those companies that stratton to take those style media and it was two of them out of existence and that’s something that is probably much better to be done by the usual activist in oman aggressively they are the source says them for the bomb that will work with wall street journal because those guys have losses to loose and a lot of us has so many losses the laws of this morning that one most important matter thank you i think i’ll stop here allow okay one last question not at this point they can